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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 05-03-2006Approved Minutes City of Plymouth Planning Commission Meeting May 3, 2006 MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Holmes, Commissioners E. J. Clyman, Kathleen Murdock, Sarah Anderson, Melissa Musliner, Karl Neset and Frank Weir MEMBERS ABSENT: None STAFF PRESENT: Community Development Director Anne Hurlburt, Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Shawn Drill, Senior Planner Marie Darling, Planner Joshua Doty, Housing Program Manager Jim Barnes, Public Works Director Doran Cote and Office Support Specialist Laurie Lokken 1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M. 2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 3. PUBLIC FORUM 4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Clyman, to approve the May 3, 2006 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. 5. CONSENT AGENDA A. APPROVAL OF THE APRIL 19, 2006, PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Musliner, to approve the April 19, 2006 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. B. DAIMLER CHRYSLER (2006007) MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Musliner, to approve the request by Daimler Chrysler for a site plan amendment to allow a parking lot and drive aisle expansion for outside storage of trailers for property located at 13005 State Highway 55. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS A. JOHN AND JACQUELINE FENSKE (2006016) Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 2 Chair Holmes introduced the request by John and Jacqueline Fenske for a conditional use permit to expand an existing garage over 1,000 square feet for property located at 605 Sycamore Lane North. Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the April 25, 2006 staff report. Commissioner Clyman asked if any other alternative options were discussed with the applicant. Senior Planner Darling said that she did make a few suggestions, including turning the garage entrance so only the new addition would have garage space facing the street. She said they are constructing the garage in order to store a large boat inside. She said that and the one foot grade difference between the existing garage and the proposed garage would make it very hard to maneuver the boat into the addition. Commissioner Clyman asked if rear entry would be a possibility. Senior Planner Darling said it would be a possibility if they were willing to drive through the yard to enter it. She said that a driveway connection to the back would impact Impervious surface coverage, but without a driveway, a rear entry could work. Commissioner Clyman asked if it could be gravel driveway. Senior Planner Darling said that counts as impervious surface coverage as well. Chair Holmes introduced the applicants, John and Jacqueline Fenske, 605 Sycamore Lane North. Ms. Fenske said they purchased the property last September, knowing they would need additional garage space. She said they went through some of the criteria needed and understood the impervious surface restriction and they had the property surveyed. She said they had been told they would need a conditional use permit if they went over 1,000 square feet. She said they did a lot of renovation inside the home and now want to have this garage. She said beside the normal vehicles, her husband is an industrial paint salesman and has a trailer for work, along with three vehicles and a large boat. She said they looked at the site and tried to understand what could be done differently. She said they tried to come up with a plan that would mitigate some of the concerns. She said side entry is not feasible. She said that first of all, the slant of the roof would have to be much higher, which would ruin the architecture of the house and secondly, they could not maneuver the boat in unless they made a door that ran the whole length of the garage. She said that for the suggestion at the back, it could possibly have some merit, but the terrain slopes upwards and there are trees so you could not get a vehicle back there and maneuver it. She said they don't see other options. She said they are also concerned about the architectural style of house, but the addition would not take out existing shrubs and trees, which would hide a lot of the new door. She said they would paint the garage doors the same color as the stucco of house so they are not so noticeable. She said the roof line would actually extend out to fit with the architectural style. She said the concern is the setback and they don't see any other option. She said they have two front yards as they are the corner lot. She said the idea of building a separate garage doesn't seem to fit in and would require variances. She said they can't add more impervious surface because of the lake. She said as far as accessing the garage from the other garages, they didn't plan on taking the wall out between or heating the additional garage. She said that they don't feel they have any Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 3 other option. She said that if they couldn't build the garage, the boat would have to be outside, which would look worse. Commissioner Murdock asked if it is possible to just increase the depth of the existing garage, end to end. Ms. Fenske said the existing garage goes right into the house, where there is living space. Chair Holmes asked how long the boat is. Mr. Fenske said it is 26 feet. Chair Holmes asked if that was the hull length. Mr. Fenske said that is from tip to end of trailer. Chair Holmes asked if the maple tree would cause a problem for backing into the proposed garage stall. Ms. Fenske said they would angle in from the driveway and it would not. Commissioner Murdock asked if they looked into the possibility of renting garage space at some other location that is not too inconvenient from their house. She said she drove through there again and most of the houses in the neighborhood have one garage door. She said this would be different and that visually, this would create some problems. She said they are storing a lot of things and understands their work needs. Ms. Fenske said they haven't looked into renting. She said that would be quite inconvenient as the trailer and vehicle are used all the time. Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as no one requested to speak on the item. MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Murdock, to deny the request by John and Jacqueline Fenske for a conditional use permit to expand the existing garage over 1,000 square feet for property located at 605 Sycamore Lane North. Commissioner Clyman said to the applicants that he also has a boat and he sympathizes with trying to find a storage area. He stores his boat in a pole barn in Hastings. He said that the variance for the addition they are adding is more towards accommodating lifestyle choice and granting the conditional use permit would be detrimental to the neighborhood as it doesn't fit in. He said if other homes in the neighborhood start to expand like that, it would alter the character of the neighborhood and he would not support it. Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously. B. COMMONBOND COMMUNITIES (2006017) Chair Holmes introduced the request by CommonBond Communities for a site plan, conditional use permit, and variances for Vicksburg Commons for property located north of County Road 47 and east of Vicksburg Lane. Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the April 25, 2006 staff report. Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 4 Commissioner Weir asked if Shenandoah Lane would be a new street. Senior Planner Drill responded that it would. Commissioner Weir asked where it would go once it gets past this development. Senior Planner Drill showed how it would run between CR47 and Vicksburg Lane. Commissioner Weir asked if the new street would remain in Plymouth. Senior Planner Drill said yes, and added that it would run along the border with Maple Grove. Commissioner Clyman asked if the City would maintain the pond. Senior Planner Drill responded yes. Commissioner Neset asked how the snow would be removed from the area at the lower east) end of the plat. Senior Planner Drill said it would be pushed to the ends of the drive aisles. Commissioner Neset asked if the public safety department was okay with the site layout. Senior Planner Drill said yes, and added that the main private drive would connect with Shenandoah Lane at two points (to form a loop), and the other private drives would be less than 150 feet in length to comply with regulations regarding emergency vehicle access. Community Development Director Hurlburt added that all of the buildings would be sprinklered for fire protection. Commissioner Clyman asked if the internal roads would be public or private. Senior Planner Drill said would be private, and would be maintained by CommonBond. He said the only public street would be Shenandoah Lane. Commissioner Anderson asked if the plans to improve County Road 47 would include a trail. Senior Planner Drill said yes. He said the developer of Taryn Hills will be reconstructing this portion of CR47, and that they provided a 10 -foot wide trail easement along both sides of CR47. He said when the road is ultimately reconstructed, trails would be installed along both sides of the road. Commissioner Anderson asked what would be done for noise mitigation. Senior Planner Drill said they would address noise mitigation through building construction. He said this area of the plat didn't work for a berm due to the grades. He said the resolution requires that the buildings be built in a manner to comply with state and city noise standards. Commissioner Anderson asked if the buildings would have air conditioning. Senior Planner Drill said they would have air conditioning and washers and dryers. He said most units would have a two -car garage, and the remainder would have a one -car garage—with the exception of the two 1 -bedroom units where a variance is requested to have no enclosed parking. Community Development Director Hurlburt noted that CR47 would be about 10 feet lower than the buildings, which would help with the noise concerns. Chair Holmes introduced applicant Amanda Novak of CommonBond Communities, 328 Kellogg Boulevard West, St. Paul. Ms. Novak said they are excited about this project, and that they constructed Bassett Creek Commons in Plymouth a few years ago. She said they are happy Plymouth is expanding the amount of affordable housing that is needed in the Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 5 area. She said all of their communities are built to the standards of any market rate development. She said the Advantage Center would offer various programs to help the residents. She said they are also working with Interfaith Outreach & Community Partners IOCP) to provide programming to enhance the development. Commissioner Clyman said he was happy about this development, and asked how CommonBond generates funds for maintenance. Ms. Novak said rents go toward paying the operations budget. She said they are able to operate as a normal community with rents that are roughly $866 for a two-bedroom unit and $1,020 for a three-bedroom unit. She said when they obtain tax credits, the equity that is given to them is used to maintain an operating reserve, as well as a replacement reserve and a rent up reserve. Commissioner Anderson asked what 30 percent and 50 percent of median household income is in Plymouth. Ms. Novak said 50 percent of median income for a four -person family is $39,500, and 30 percent of median income for a four -person family is $24,000. Commissioner Anderson asked how much the rent is going to be for the people living in the 50 percent portion. Ms. Novak said it would be between $866 and $1,020. Commissioner Anderson asked if an inventory has been done for the average rental price in Plymouth. Housing Program Manager Barnes said that the average for a two-bedroom unit is currently about $1,000 per month. He said a three-bedroom unit is currently $1,200 to 1,400 per month, depending on the type of building and how old it is. Commissioner Anderson asked what has been done as far as exploring ownership of homes. Housing Program Manager Barnes said they haven't done a lot with developing owner -occupied affordable housing because of the high cost of land. He said we have a first time homebuyer program where we offer up to $25,000 in a second mortgage to assist the buyer. He said we are also looking at partnering with other entities that have models, such as Habitat for Humanity that can come in and offer the ownership side. He said the comprehensive plan looks to provide a wide range of housing options for our residents. He said this CommonBond development would address that on the rental side. Commissioner Anderson said she wanted to know about affordable programs for ownership. Community Development Director Hurlburt said home ownership for people earning 30 or 50 percent of median income is difficult, because they are rarely able to qualify for a mortgage. Ms. Novak said that they have had about ten phone calls about Vicksburg Commons from people wanting to move in now. She said there is a need and desire for people to live in this community. Commissioner Clyman asked if they envision a lot of seniors living in this development. Ms. Novak said they typically do not get senior inquiries because it is income qualified, and also because seniors don't need a unit that has two or three bedrooms. She said seniors are not discriminated against by any means. Chair Holmes introduced Kim Vohs of Interfaith Outreach & Community Partners, 110 Grand Avenue, Wayzata. He said they are a strong partner in this project. He said they Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 6 were very active in initiating the project. He said they work actively to find a non-profit developer to work to provide affordable housing in this community. He said CommonBond is the number one provider of affordable housing in the State of Minnesota. He said they have an excellent reputation and if you are going to have a developer providing and operating affordable housing in your community, you could not have anyone better. He said they have a strong financial background and a reputation for sound financial management. He said his organization will be operating the Advantage Center and providing services on site. He said they will have a comprehensive service center that will provide needed services. He said they are strongly supportive of the development. He said IOCP is also providing $200,000 in funding for the project. He said they have community backing, as well as community employers providing funding. He said they appreciate the City's cooperation in developing this. Commissioner Weir said it is wonderful that Interfaith Outreach & Community Partners is functioning the way they are in the community. Chair Holmes opened the public hearing. Chair Holmes introduced Gene Zaske of 6202 Upland Lane North, Maple Grove. Mr. Zaske said he applauds the community, Interfaith Outreach & Community Partners, and CommonBond for bringing in affordable housing. He said he is concerned about Shenandoah Lane, and asked that there be heavy screening for views and a wall be built for noise. He asked about ponding and what would happen to the runoff. He said he hopes these concerns would be addressed now as part of cost the to Lundgren to put this in and not later when the commercial development is finalized. Chair Holmes introduced Nick Pizano of 15567 Elm Road, Maple Grove. Mr. Pizano said the Taryn Hills development has not retained the natural beauty of the land. He said the retaining walls would total 24 feet high in some areas. He said his house is at the base of those walls, and with no natural buffer, he is going to be looking directly at the walls. He said he's not opposed to CommonBond's development, but that something has to be done to restore the area, as trees were removed and there are presently large mounds of dirt on the site. Chair Holmes introduced Mary Prazich of 15468 -62nd Avenue North, Maple Grove. Ms. Prazich asked if public safety access to this northern portion of Plymouth was considered due to the railroad tracks. Chair Holmes closed the public hearing. Senior Planner Drill said that Shenandoah Lane construction would include a roughly 10- 12 foot high retaining wall, that would be built at this time when the road is constructed by Lundgren. He said the street would be lower than Mr. Zaske's property to the north. He said Lundgren has taken great effort to design the wall in a manner that allows them to save Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 7 as much of the existing vegetation as they can. He said that the resolution for the Taryn Hills plat had called out that when the commercial site is developed, the issue of transitions will need to be addressed regarding how buildings are laid out and what other things can be done to minimize the effects of that development. Community Development Director Hurlburt noted that tree preservation was reviewed when the overall project was approved. She said tree removal in some areas was pretty extensive but there were significant amounts of trees preserved in other areas. Senior Planner Drill said about 60 percent of the significant trees were preserved overall. Community Development Director said that when you look at the overall development of 250 acres, the entire site was looked at together rather than each stand of trees. Senior Planner Drill said there would be two walls, 10-12 feet each, in the range of about 22 feet. He said it would be terraced downward toward the pond. He said drainage and ponding was reviewed extensively as part of the overall Taryn Hills plat that was approved last year. He said that the DNR has also been involved in the review of the drainage plan. Public Works Director Cote said that post -development rates of runoff cannot exceed pre - development rates of runoff, so there would be no more water leaving the site after development than what was previously leaving the site. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that public safety had been considered by the Taryn Hills development. She said we have existing homes in that area and the City will provide services to that area. She said that it is part of the Comprehensive Plan for this area to develop and as we plan for development, we also consider the impact on our police and fire departments as well as all City services. Commissioner Neset asked what the distance is from the north end of the pond to the north lot line. Senior Planner Drill said it about 20 feet. Commissioner Neset asked if there are trees in that area. Senior Planner Drill said the area was cleared for installation of a deep sanitary sewer line. Commissioner Neset said he understands Mr. Pizano's concern about seeing the tall retaining walls, and asked if there was any consideration being given to additional screening, such as coniferous trees, in the north area of the pond. He asked what the width is between the lower and upper terrace. Senior Planner Drill said it is about 10 feet. Commissioner Neset said additional landscaping may be needed to address the view of the retaining walls. Community Development Director Hurlburt said staff would look at the Taryn Hills landscaping plan to see what has been approved. Chair Holmes said that if landscaping was not shown there, staff should talk to developers to see if it could be softened with vegetation. Commissioner Clyman asked if it is normally required to have fencing at top of the walls. Senior Planner Drill said a fence is required for safety purposes. Commissioner Murdock asked about funding sources for the development. Housing Program Manager Barnes said the developer has eight different funding sources they have Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 8 applied for, and the largest is the tax credits of about $5,000,000. He said there are two funding sources still pending. One is City tax increment financing (TIF) and the other financing is through the County. He said Hennepin County will make their decision at the end of May, and we are reviewing the TIF now. Chair Holmes allowed Nick Pizano to address the Commission again. Mr. Pizano said that the drainage flows northwest through the site and crosses Elm Road. He said he has a creek in his back yard. He asked if the material for the two retaining walls could be changed from keystone to boulders. Senior Planner Drill said boulder walls would not work because the walls have to be engineered at this height. He noted that the proposed pond would capture runoff flowing to the northwest, and reiterated Mr. Cote's comment that rates of runoff cannot be increased from the pre -development condition. MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Neset, to approve the request by CommonBond Communities for a site plan, conditional use permit, and variances for Vicksburg Commons for property located north of County Road 47 and east of Vicksburg Lane. Commissioner Anderson said the Commission's task was to review the site plan, conditional use permit, and variances. She said the City's discretion is limited to whether or not the proposal has met those standards. She said that in reviewing the proposal, they would meet the standards so she will vote in favor of the development. Commissioner Murdock said she is pleased with the proposal for affordable housing in Plymouth. She thanked CommonBond Communities and IOCP for their partnership. Commissioner Clyman said that he would also support the proposal, but that he would like to pass on the Commission's concern for the Maple Grove residents to the north, and urges the developer to review and address their issues. Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. C. LAND TITLE, INC. (2006019) Chair Holmes introduced the request by Land Title, Inc. for a registered land survey to correct a legal description error for properties owned by Elm Creek Golf Course and Scherber Investments LP for property located north of State Highway 55 and east of Brockton Lane. Planner Doty gave an overview of the April 25, 2006 staff report. Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 9 Commissioner Musliner asked why it came to this level and why a decision is needed. Planner Doty said that because the two properties were combined, a registered land survey is needed to add back the lot line. He said it is similar to a plat but it not subject to City subdivision regulations because there's no development. Commissioner Musliner asked how that mistake could have been made in the first place. Planner Doty said that the error was made when the applicant was recording documents at the county a year ago. Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Mark Haagensen, Land Title, Inc., 1900 Silver Lake Road, Suite 200, New Brighton. Mr. Haagensen said that about a year ago, they had conveyed this over in error. He said they were involved in a transaction for the adjoining property. He said that this property, which belonged to Elm Creek, got conveyed with that. He said at that time, there was one Torrens Certificate in the name of the individual who owned the whole quarter, quarter section along with an adjoining smaller parcel to the south. He said that they are now trying to reverse that transaction. He said that because they have one Torrens Certificate in this developer's name that covers the whole property, Hennepin County is requiring a registered land survey. He said they found the deeds to Elm Creek, which were originally bought on a contract in 1991. He said the deed was fulfilled in 1996 and then filed in the County Recorders office instead of the Registrars office; therefore, the Torrens Certificate did not read correctly. He said they have been in contact with the entity in title and they have agreed to convey it back. Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as no one requested to speak on the item. MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Musliner, to approve the request by Land Title, Inc. for a registered land survey to correct a legal description error for properties owned by Elm Creek Golf Course and Scherber Investments LP for property located north of State Highway 55 and east of Brockton Lane. Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. 7. NEW BUSINESS A. PLYMOUTH HRA Chair Holmes introduced the request by the City of Plymouth HRA to review Tax Increment Financing (TIF) Plan for District No. 1-2, CommonBond's Vicksburg Commons. Housing Program Manager Barnes gave an overview of the April 25, 2006 staff report. Commissioner Weir asked what the final step for this project is if this is approved. Housing Program Manager Barnes said that tonight, the Planning Commission is not Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 10 approving the tax increment financing district or approving the creation of a district. He said they are to state whether the plan that has been developed to create this district is in conformance with the City's comprehensive plan. He said the approvals of the TIF district will be made on two levels. He said the Housing and Redevelopment Authority will approve the document through resolution at their May meeting and ultimately, City Council will approve the creation of the district. Commissioner Clyman asked to go over the numbers reflected on the Assumptions Report page 14 of the Tax Increment Financing Plan). Housing Program Manager Barnes gave an overview of page 14 in the report. Commissioner Clyman asked if CommonBond is the owner and would be the taxpayer. Housing Program Manager Barnes said that was correct. Commissioner Clyman asked if their numbers are in line with the jump in years reflected. Housing Program Manager Barnes said they submit their application and give us their timing and staging and how long this project is going to take. He said our financial consultant, through their analysis, puts that information into the formula. Commissioner Anderson asked what the overall tax amount is that we will be less because the full amount is not collected. Housing Program Manager Barnes said that if this land remains as it is now, we generate $6,000 in taxes. He said that the development of this 7,000,000 project will generate taxes on an annual basis starting at about $45,000 in the first full year. He said these are based on the numbers known today. He said that as the buildings are actually built, our assessing department reviews and sets the actual values. Commissioner Anderson asked how much is the initial investment for taxpayers overall. Housing Program Manager Barnes said there is no initial investment from the creation of this TIF district. Commissioner Anderson said she is asking about the public funding. Housing Program Manager Barnes said that about 2.5 million worth of subsidy is needed to make this project work. He said most of it is in the form of deferred loans or loans that will be paid back over time. Commissioner Anderson asked that with these units being three bedroom units and assuming children would be living in these homes, what additional burden is being put on the school district by not having full capacity and expecting the school district to pick up those students. Housing Program Manager Barnes said that at this point, the school district is reviewing the plan and has not commented back to them regarding what burden, if any, would be placed on their district. He said that when they do respond, that will be made part of the public record. Commissioner Anderson asked if we are being premature without having that information, as well as the Hennepin County information. Housing Program Manager Barnes said that the action the Commission is being asked to vote on this evening is whether this plan is in conformance with the City's comprehensive plan. He said the decision is not whether the TIF district should be created or not. He said that is being decided on May 18 by the HRA as well as June 13 ultimately, by the City Council. Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 11 Commissioner Anderson stated that she feels that in order to determine whether it is part of the Plymouth plan and whether this is the route to go, she needs to have those other pieces of the puzzle put in place. She said she would rather wait until they hear back from the other entities before moving forward with this. MOTION by Commissioner Murdock, seconded by Commissioner Weir, to approve the TIF Plan for the Plymouth Housing and Redevelopment Authority's (HRA) Tax Increment Financing Housing District 1-2 (Vicksburg Commons). Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved. Commissioner Anderson voting Nay. The Planning Commission recessed at 8:35 p.m. and reconvened at 8:44 p.m. B. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (2005050) Chair Holmes introduced the request by the City of Plymouth to discuss the Comprehensive Plan Update and the sample land use plans for Northwest Plymouth. Community Development Director Hurlburt gave an overview of the April 28, 2006 staff report. Commissioner Clyman asked that on the Elm Creek interceptor, did the Met Council state that three units/acre is needed to really utilize it. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that is correct. Commission Clyman asked if one part of northwest is more dense and then there's less density on the other part, if sewer can handle more density on one end that is maybe higher than three units, as long as there's lower density on the other end or is Met Council saying they are looking for three units evenly spread out. Community Development Director Hurlburt said the land use plan is up to the City. She said they build a regional system expecting a certain amount of utilization and expecting that these investments will provide opportunities for a certain amount of development so they don't have to build more sewer some place else. She said there is that regional policy, however, what happens within the City boundaries is up to the City. She said this is an average because not all property is going to be suitable for the same amount of development. She said they give us the volume they expect in the sewer and we need to be consistent with that. She said the volume and density policy are important because they do have some legal authority, but there is a lot of negotiation. Commissioner Clyman asked if in sample plan number one, if the lower end minimum of 2,300 units was selected, would there be enough capacity in the existing urban area to make up the other 2,100. Community Development Director Hurlburt said the 4,500 was based on absorbing our forecast to 2010 in the existing urban area. She said the 4,500 units is the Met Council's forecast for development between 2010 and 2030. Commissioner Clyman asked if there has been any feedback from the Met Council. Community Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 12 Development Director Hurlburt said that before we can get any feedback from the Met Council, the City has to have some kind of a plan by our governing body. Commissioner Clyman asked what was going on in sample plan number one along Vicksburg Lane where there is a jutting out of LA -1. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that staff tried to keep parcel boundaries in tact. She said the idea is that in order to develop this LA 1 area, there is going to have to be some sort of road connection over to Vicksburg Lane and that is why it is shown that way. Chair Holmes took comments from residents wishing to speak. Chair Holmes introduced Edward Svetc, 5330 Vicksburg Lane North. Mr. Svetc said the area is not a lot of land if you subtract what Lundgren has already built. He said Plymouth is proposing to have a 100 foot setback on about four properties north of the railroad tracks and on the east. He said everyone else along Vicksburg still has 50 feet. He said he would like someone to explain that. He said everyone is trying to protect the trees and that's great. He said last year, City of Plymouth forestry sent letters stating that they had 1,500 oak wilt trees and they were sending out inspectors to look. He said that last year alone, he had 59 they had to have cut down. He said he has been digging them out with backhoes so the root systems don't spread. He said the only thing to stop it was to dig a deep trench. He said they should be clear -cutting and have the developments plant disease resistance trees. He said in the long run, it will look better. He said they like northwest Plymouth to be developed just like the rest of Plymouth that has water and sewer. He said they should not be treated any different. He said they talked about allowing people to pick and choose who gets water and sewer and that is not the way to develop a community. Chair Holmes introduced Len Luedke, 17910 County Road 47. Mr. Luedke said there are many meetings about this comprehensive plan where it has been stated that this is our last chance to save open space for the future. He said that if we look at reality and the needs for the future, we are going to need additional housing units every time a comprehensive plan comes up. He said that once expensive homes are built on large lots, they will remain for many comprehensive plans and each time a comprehensive plan comes up, the only way to squeeze in more units will be to tear down truly affordable houses where people are living without public assistance. He said he is aware the 55446 zip code in Plymouth is the third highest income in the metro area but is that justification to force less fortunate residents out of our City. Chair Holmes introduced Kim Vohs, Interfaith Outreach & Community Partners, 110 Grand Avenue, Wayzata. Mr. Vohs said their feelings about the comprehensive plan is that the options proposed so far are really not positive. He said their interest for the clients they serve is in providing and promoting affordable housing. He said any one of these three options severely limit that. He said that for Vicksburg Commons, which is 50 units on seven acres, the density of seven units/acre would only be allowed on the LA -3 and LA -4 areas. He said this is a 2,000 acre parcel and the opportunity here is huge. He said in Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 13 future years in the developing of this land, we need to look ahead now. He said we are talking about preserving and making a transition. He said they have already transitioned in Maple Grove and traffic is coming here from there and cramping our road system. He said we need to plan for allowing density. He said that in talking about affordable housing and workforce housing, you have to look ahead at the comprehensive plan and look at fuel cost. He said people need to live where they work. He said we need affordable housing to allow that. He said we have lots of employment opportunities in Plymouth and there is an opportunity to create more residential opportunities as well. He said there are a lot of natural amenities in this area that need to be preserved. He said we don't want to create affordable housing at the expense of losing nature. He said we have clustering models that allow greater density around natural amenities. He said we need to look at those and none of the three proposals allow that creativity to occur. He said he is puzzled by adding another whole set of rules for this area that scale back density. He said we need to look further ahead and that every community that is developed on the fringe struggles with these issues. He said we need to be aware of the need for affordable housing and for it to be where people work. He said the Met Council concerns have been raised and we don't know what they will say to this. He said we need to run some different scenarios per Met Council requirements of how many affordable units will the different three plans allow to be created. He said we know about land costs and our struggle with density to deal with that. He said that if you allow opportunities for that, it gives developers the opportunity to be creative. He said he is pleased to hear support for their project and hopes the Commission will look at this through the affordable housing lens and make some strong recommendations to the City Council to reconsider this to allow greater density along the main corridors and to look at affordable housing. He said their group is concerned about this as well as other groups. Chair Holmes introduced Judy Luedke, 17910 County Road 47. Ms. Luedke said she has been accused for years of wanting to develop her property and take the money and run. She said that if this plan would have gone in the last comprehensive plan, it would not have gone through. She said we would have had cheaper housing and we could have had more affordable housing. She said this is the comprehensive plan that is out now and she fears the City Council wouldn't be looking at affordable housing as much as they should this time either. She said they have 54 acres and one acre has an old school house on it that was converted to a home and no one has lived there for more than two years. She said they sure would like that developed also. She said that if they change their classification from LA -R3 to LA -3, she can have more units. She said the more people that can go on this land, it does save the housing in other parts of the City. She said she circulated the petition and went into parts of City and talked to people. She said they are very concerned because they would like to continue to live in areas where people have started buying, tearing down and building new homes. She said it doesn't fit and they would like to stay in their homes. She said we live in the City, we don't live in the country. She said Hillstone Meadows adjoins her property and why couldn't she be an LA -2 and have more housing on her land. She said she agrees we should have even more than Met Council gives us. She said at the time of the last comprehensive plan, Plymouth didn't take all the people that the Met Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 14 Council wanted them to. She said she wonders why we don't volunteer to take people so that the people can live on this land and can be in the City and enjoy the amenities. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that staff is preparing a report for the next meeting which will include a summary of all the comments received in the meetings this week. She said to let staff know in advance of any additional information requested. Commissioner Clyman asked about the Peony Lane alignment and how the property owners plan to develop that area after the road alignment is done. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that roads are developed as surrounding land is developed. Commissioner Clyman said the majority of voices that have spoken at these meetings have been concerned for the preservation of the rural, natural character. He said that based on the feedback, he likes sample land use plan number one and would like more information from the City about changing the I -P area in the southwest corner to LA -4 and increasing the density north of State Highway 55 from LA -1 to LA -3 or LA -4. He said affordable options should be along the main corridors and he doesn't see County Road 47 or Vicksburg being improved over the next 15 to 20 years. He said the density shouldn't be added into that area and should be addressed 20 years from now. He said there should not be affordable housing in that area where there is not accessibility by public transit. He said the density should be more towards the State Highway 55 area. Commissioner Murdock said she appreciates all the maps and information as it helps make it more concrete in her mind after all the multiple meetings and conversations held. She said she is not entirely sure that the rural to urban overlay piece makes the most sense. She said that maybe some higher density or pockets of higher density in some areas make more sense. She said she appreciates all the comments. She said she is less likely to go in the direction of sample plan number one as it is the least dense. She said there are probably some more options that would have some more dense development within that planning area. She said she would be interested in more information for what is planned for the northern boundary of Maple Grove area and what type of developments they have in the works. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that will be in the next packet as well. Commissioner Murdock said there have been several discussions about the golf course issue and asked if they are looking at a separate land use for them. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that at the March 9 and March 21 meetings, there had been discussion whether or not the existing operating golf courses should continue as public institutional or if they needed to reflect some development potential. She said it was suggested to look at a land use guide plan classification that could look at preserving some of the open space benefits of those golf courses but still recognize the fact that they are privately owned. She said the City Council asked to reflect the Elm Creek Golf Course as Approved Planning Commission Minutes May 3, 2006 Page 15 if the use had changed and after the June decision to come back and look at other golf courses. Commissioner Murdock asked for a document that lays out housing unit targets from the Met Council. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that will be included in the report. Commissioner Murdock asked about information received from Speak the Word Church. Community Development Director Hurlburt said that at the March meetings, City Council members asked about the Church's intent for the 80 acre parcel they own along County Road 101. She said Speak the Word Church has purchased additional land to the north. She said their intent is to use the entire 80 acres for a large facility to be their world headquarters and retain the land to the north and not sell to anyone to develop for some other use. Chair Holmes thanked the residents for staying to this late hour. He said it is gratifying to see their concern and that their comments are being heard. 8. ADJOURNMENT MOTION by Chair Holmes without objection to adjourn the meeting at 9:55 p.m.