HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 12-05-2007Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
December 5, 2007
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Holmes, Commissioners Terry Jaffoni, James
Davis, Erik Aamoth, and John Cooney (Commissioner Cooney arrived at 7:10 P.M.).
MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioners Frank Weir and Karl Neset.
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Community Development
Director Steve Juetten, Senior Planner Shawn Drill, Planner Joshua Doty, Senior Planner
Marie Darling, Associate Planner Kip Berglund, Associate Planner Jared Noelting,
Housing Program Manager James Barnes, Park and Recreation Director Eric Blank, Public
Works Director Doran Cote, Water Resources Technician Derek Asche, City Engineer Bob
Moberg and Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Jaffoni, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
December 5, 2007 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 4 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 7, 2007 PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Aamoth, to approve the
November 7, 2007 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 4 Ayes. MOTION approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. RYAN COMPANIES US, INC. (2007092)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by the Ryan Companies US, Inc. for a site plan,
conditional use permit, and variance to allow construction of a pharmacy within the Taryn
Hills commercial site located in the northeast quadrant of County Road 47 and Vicksburg
Lane North.
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Senior Planner Drill advised that the public hearing would be continued to January 2, 2008.
He said the applicant would like additional time to further develop the site plan and
building elevations, and asked for further continuance.
Motion by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni to continue the public
hearing to January 2, 2008. Vote. 4 Ayes. MOTION approved.
B. MESSIAH UNITED METHODIST CHURCH (2005099)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by the Messiah United Methodist Church for a site
plan amendment, conditional use permit amendment, and variances to allow a church
expansion for Messiah United Methodist Church located at 17805 County Road 6.
Planner Doty gave an overview of the November 27, 2007 staff report.
Commissioner Jaffoni said the number of parking spaces is in excess of what the Zoning
Ordinance requires. She asked the reason for additional spaces.
Planner Doty said the applicant was able to add additional parking through re -striping.
Two parking spaces were also added in the northeast corner due to the access that would be
closed. Planning Manager Senness added that other uses utilize the parking lot during the
week, such as the park and ride, day care and the Minnesota School of Business.
Commissioner Davis asked what would happen to the former entrance area.
Planner Doty said the current access to the parking lot would be removed and converted to
sod, except for a sidewalk.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
Commissioner Davis said this looks like a good plan. MOTION by Commissioner Davis,
seconded by Commissioner Cooney, to approve request by the Messiah United Methodist
Church for a site plan amendment, conditional use permit amendment, and variances to
allow a church expansion for Messiah United Methodist Church located at 17805 County
Road 6. Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
C. DUKE REALTY, L.P. (2007107)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Duke Realty for a preliminary plat for "Medicine
Lake Business Park" for property located at 975 Nathan Lane.
Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the November 27, 2007 staff report.
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Commissioner Davis asked if there is any downside in doing this.
Senior Planner Drill responded he could not think of any.
Chair Holmes introduced David Bade of Duke Realty. Mr. Bade said he concurs with the
staff recommendation. He said approval of the plat would provide flexibility as they
proceed with development of their neighboring Waterford Business Park office site—
whether speculative or tenant driven. Platting of the site would allow for the potential
future lot line adjustment and subsequent use of a presently unused area of the 975 Nathan
site. That roughly 2 -acre area potentially could be used for additional parking for the office
site, allowing a little more density by possibly adding one story to one of the office
buildings.
Commissioner Davis asked if the approved site plan for the office site would need to be
amended.
Senior Planner Drill said a site plan amendment could be submitted in the future if any
changes are proposed to the approved site plan for the office development.
Chair Holmes stated that the plat would better define the boundaries of the site, and that the
roughly two acres in the southeast area may or may not come before the Commission in the
future—depending on how the office site ultimately develops.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
MOTION by Commissioner Jaffoni, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
request by Duke Realty for a preliminary plat for "Medicine Lake Business Park" for
property located at 975 Nathan Lane N. Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
D. RJM CONSTRUCTION (2007106)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by RJM Construction for a site plan amendment and
interim use permit amendment for a parking expansion at RJM Construction located at
5455 State Highway 169 and off site parking for Liberty Properties located at 9600 –
54th
Avenue North.
Planner Doty gave an overview of the November 27, 2007 staff report.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if ev3 is no longer located there, would ownership and use
revert back to RJM.
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Planner Doty said the cross access easements that would be created would allow both
property owners to use that space. He said perpetual use of the parking lot would be
available to either owner of the property.
Commissioner Davis asked if ev3 meets the parking lot requirements with the addition of
the proposed lot.
Planner Doty advised ev3 was short 40 spaces; he said with the offsite shared parking they
do meet the parking space requirement.
Chair Holmes asked about pedestrian traffic on the driveway to get from one lot to another
to get to the ev3 building.
Planner Doty stated the 26 -foot drive aisle is wide enough for pedestrian travel to occur.
He said a sidewalk connection could be a recommendation by the Planning Commission.
Planner Doty added that the parking lot is isolated and would not have much traffic.
Planning Manager Senness added that the parking is for employees and would occur in the
morning and at night, which is different than if it were a public visitor lot.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
MOTION by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Cooney, to approve the
request by RJM Construction for a site plan amendment and interim use permit amendment
for a parking expansion at RJM Construction located at 5455 State Highway 169 and off
site parking for Liberty Properties located at 9600 — 54th Avenue North. Roll Call Vote.
5 Ayes. MOTION approved
E. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (2005050)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by the City of Plymouth for the Comprehensive Plan
Update.
Planning Manager Senness gave an overview of the November 29, 2007 staff report. She
said additional e-mail correspondence from the Hollydale neighborhood would be included
as part of the public record.
Chair Holmes asked why the reclassification for the three properties is requested now
versus the LA -RT guiding we put in place.
Planning Manager Senness said the property owners gave background as to why they think
the property should be looked at now. She said the Weld's (5605 Juneau Lane) made this
request in June, 2006 when the northwest plan was considered by City Council. She said
staff is not bringing a recommendation, rather presenting the request.
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Chair Holmes opened the public hearing.
Chair Holmes introduced Stephen Weld, 5605 Juneau Lane N. Mr. Weld said the
requested change would be consistent with the two properties west of him. He said the
change to LA -R2 would increase the likelihood of selling their property and it would be
better management of the property. Mr. Weld said he seeks the Planning Commission's
support and approval.
Chair Holmes introduced Peter Hwang, 6015 Troy Lane, who said he and Lee and Jody
Brandel, 5945 Troy Lane, are requesting their properties be reclassified to LA -R2. He said
the LA -R2 would be consistent with the proposed 3-5 acre land parcels north of their
property. Mr. Hwang said he has 5 acres and the Brandel property is 10 acres. He said the
change would be beneficial for the proposed plan because the properties to the north are
shallow in depth. He said there is not enough depth to allow access to Troy Lane. He said
you would have to build a road to Co. Rd. 47. Mr. Hwang said you could plan for
affordable housing as it is flat land. Mr. Hwang said the age of their homes is similar to
the LA -R2 homes to the north. Mr. Hwang said in a conversation with Lee Brandel he did
request this change when the plan was developed a year or two ago.
Chair Holmes introduced Felix Hsu, 4485 Garland Lane North. Mr. Hsu introduced the
petition on behalf of the neighborhoods around the Hollydale Golf Course. Mr. Hsu said a
year ago there were meetings with many people and petitions. He said the reason for the
petitions now a year later is there is a feeling or discomfort level with the people about
what they see happening right now. Mr. Hsu said if you have managed people before, you
know people will listen to what you say and then they will take a look at what you do. He
said the City says it is committed to an 18 -hole golf course and committed to Hollydale but
what they are seeing is the Comprehensive Plan going from 8 pages on golf courses to one
paragraph. Mr. Hsu said the Elm Creek Golf Course and Hampton Hills are gone. He said
they are seeing spray parks, equestrian park, and water parks. He said the reason for the
emotion and petitioner language is because there is no action behind what is said and that is
why so many of the same people are back now one year later.
Chair Holmes introduced Brad Olson, 16825 49th Pl. N. who echoed Mr. Shu's comments.
He said the City should maintain Hollydale as a golf course. He said he is fearful when
driving out on to Schmidt Lake Road now with the high school traffic, and the idea of
potentially adding homes on the golf course makes him nervous about the density of that
area. Mr. Olson said he likes to golf, and likes to think Plymouth could maintain one full
public 18 -hole golf course. Mr. Olson said there is an issue of maintaining the values of
the homes. Mr. Olson asked to put in language consistent with maintaining a golf course.
Chair Holmes introduced Steve Lindo, 16705 49th Pl. N. Mr. Lindo said he commended
the planners for having made an adjustment in language. He said the additional language is
in response to the efforts of many people who have voiced concerns about lack of
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specificity on golf courses in the plan. Mr. Lindo said he echoed the words of others. He
said the value to live close to Hollydale is not just recreational features, but the natural
beauty and greenery. He said to echo a statement in the plan it is demographically the
opinion of planners that this population is aging and more diverse. A golf course would be
a prominent feature of Plymouth parks with these changes.
Chair Holmes introduced Greg Anderson, 15307 60th Avenue North. Mr. Anderson
discussed Chapter 6 of the transportation plan, and said he is happy to see the on -road
bicycle routes. He cited many reasons for riding including exercise, transportation, stress
reduction and less environmental impact. Mr. Anderson said Plymouth is fortunate to have
one of the best trail systems in the metro area. He said to better serve the growing number
of on -road cyclists, Plymouth can improve the safety for on -road cyclists; he said every on -
road cyclist represents one less car. Mr. Anderson encouraged the City to give more
consideration in the Comprehensive Plan to be consistent with policy and guidelines from
the Metropolitan Council, Mn/DOT, and Complete Street wording which would help put
Plymouth more in line with neighboring suburbs. He said a map would be useful as well.
Mr. Anderson displayed an overview of the trail systems for St. Louis Park, Edina and
Richfield. Mr. Anderson said there are legitimate safety reasons for on road cyclists, which
are outlined in the American Association of State and Highway Transportation Officials
guide.
Chair Holmes introduced Greg Modrack, 4950 Comstock Lane N. Mr. Modrack echoed
Mr. Hsu and said this room was full at a City Council listening session regarding
Hollydale. Knowing that so many people are interested in this subject, Mr. Modrack said
he finds it odd that the language is so diluted from what was previously in the plan. Mr.
Modrack said at the very least strengthen not weaken the language, and asked that language
similar to what was recommended by their committee be used.
Chair Holmes introduced Bob Burk, 4962 Comstock Lane N. Mr. Burk thanked the
Planning Commission for adopting the language on the golf courses the last time the
subject was before them. He said unfortunately the City Council trashed their proposal
with new language which is not acceptable to the homeowners and is the reason for the
petition to bring back some of the language. Mr. Burk said we are basically back to the
drawing board after the City Council changed the language and raised a number of
concerns that had been recommended. He said the petition put back more language to help
strengthen what is in the comprehensive plan for golf courses. Mr. Burk said the
Minnesota Supreme Court has said the comprehensive plan is critical, as a city has a right
to develop the land as it sets forth in the comprehensive plan. Mr. Burk said when
condensing 7-8 pages to 4 bullet points, it is not sticking with the true intent of what the
City is saying to us. Mr. Burk stated he wants to maintain Hollydale and doesn't think the
City is doing that.
Chair Holmes introduced Becky Hsu. Ms. Hsu said in addition to earlier statements and
the petition, she wanted to point out it feels like the change in the Comprehensive Plan is
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inconsistent with a number of things the City wants. She said demographically, the City
seems to be getting older, and seniors seem to enjoy golf courses. Ms. Hsu said the
equestrian park and water park seem to be inconsistent in the minds of homeowners. She
said it seems inconsistent that the City wants green space and then remove green space and
add homes. Ms. Hsu thanked staff and the Planning Commission for their hard work.
Chair Holmes said the emails received are part of the public record.
Chair Holmes closed the public hearing.
LAND USE PLAN
Commissioner Aamoth asked about the request in 2006 to reclassify the three properties
from LA -RT to LA -R2.
Planning Manager Senness said she didn't recall that the Planning Commission reviewed
this, but the City Council chose to not make a change in the classification at that time.
Mr. Weld offered some background from 2006. He said various parcels were presented to
the City Council for LA -R2 guiding. Mr. Weld said that his property did not go through
the Planning Commission so it was not on their records when the City Council reviewed it.
When it went before City Council a second time, a neighbor who was ill and interested in
selling her property submitted an LA -R2 request the day before the meeting. Because there
was no opportunity to review it, one of the council members did not want to consider either
request for change.
Chair Holmes asked if LA -RT is a holding zone until an owner or developer requests a
change.
Planning Manager Senness explained LA -RT is the lowest density remaining within the
City, but is not a holding zone like FRD is. She said when the Council and Planning
Commission looked at northwest Plymouth, there were some areas that they did not want
to see a lot of additional development and were maintained as LA -RT.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if staff is recommending this change.
Planning Manager Senness stated staff is not making a recommendation.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if the LA -RT zoning is because the vision for these parcels
was to be as little developed as possible.
Planning Manager Senness said many property owners wanted the LA -RT designation.
Commissioner Davis asked how long the LA -RT guiding would be in place if a
recommendation to change to LA -R2 is not made.
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Planning Manager Senness stated the plan would not go into effect for probably one year
from now. She said once that occurs, anyone can bring forward a request for a change.
Planning Manager Senness added that anytime a formal request is made, the City must
consider it. She said if the plan is preliminarily adopted with a different guiding, it is
unlikely it would get a favorable response.
Chair Holmes said he thinks it is premature to change these three properties today.
Planning Manager Senness said with the current guiding and zoning very little can be done
with those properties. The property owners are asking for consideration that LA -RT be
changed to LA -R2 in the new plan and be considered now as opposed to some time in the
future.
Commissioner Aamoth asked for clarification of the guiding of surrounding properties.
Senior Planner Drill displayed a map indicating LA -R2 to the west and south of the Weld
property; the Hwang and Brandel properties have LA -R2 immediately to the north and east.
Commissioner Aamoth said there had been a preference to keep the properties rural, but
surrounding properties are LA -R2.
Commissioner Davis said based on the fact that properties beside them are LA -R2 he
recommended that the City Council should consider reclassifying the three properties to
LA -R2.
Commissioner Jaffoni reviewed the guiding of the adjacent properties, and asked what
were they were thinking to keep this little area LA -RT. She said this was not random, and
said it is hard to make an opinion when she does not know the original rationale.
Planning Manager Senness explained that property owner considerations played a role.
She said most of the LA -R2 property to the south is controlled by Tradition Development,
who hopes to develop one master plan. Planning Manager Senness said other property
owners strongly wished to remain LA -RT.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked how those property owners would feel if these three were
changed to LA -R2.
Senior Planner Drill noted that properties to the east and south have severe grade issues
that may limit development regardless of guiding. He said there is also a shoreland overlay
district on the property to the south and east.
Housing Plan
No discussion.
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Surface Water Management Plan
Commissioner Jaffoni asked for clarification on the treatment plan for Schmidt Lake.
Water Resources Technician Asche said that Schmidt Lake is listed as an impaired water
body and would closely follow the treatment plan of the total maximum daily load (TMDL)
plan which is in its infancy stages of development. Water Resources Technician Asche
said Schmidt Lake, Pomerleau, and several lakes outside of the city limit, are all in the
Shingle Creek Watershed.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if Schmidt Lake is handled differently since it is a headwater
feeding into another lake.
Water Resources Technician Asche said Schmidt Lake is unique as it is at the top of the
watershed and is completely developed with residential use. He said Schmidt Lake has a
similar nutrient loading issue as other lakes in the watershed which are completely
developed.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if the TMDL plan has strategy for chemical treatment of algae
removal and weeds, or if it mainly addresses storm drains and inputs to the lake.
Water Resources Technician Asche said the TMDL plan would address surface water at
catch basins through to the pipes. He added that City has staff representatives on that
watershed. Water Resources Technician Asche said the City also provides other programs
such as water resource grants which are above and beyond the TMDL plan.
Transportation Plan
Commissioner Davis referenced Mr. Anderson's comments that the bike plan for Plymouth
is not as mature as other cities, but the fact that we have it at this time is a step in the right
direction.
Parks Trails Open Spaces
No discussion.
Water Supply Distribution Plan
No discussion.
Sanitary Sewer Plan
No discussion.
Public Facilities Plan
No discussion.
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Golf Course Discussion
Planning Manager Senness said that Council Member Black had submitted a revision to the
draft text of the neighbors' petition.
Commissioner Davis said he received many e-mails and citizens have been working with
their elected officials to revise wording on the Comprehensive Plan, and now another
elected official has edited wording.
Chair Holmes said one of the goals of the Comprehensive Plan process was to reduce the
fluff' wording in the plan to be more precise whereas the last plan had a lot of verbiage.
Chair Holmes said one key observation is that the plan still shows Hollydale as a P -I
zoning, and a request to change guiding and zoning would have to come before the
Planning Commission and be approved by City Council. He said looking to the Year 2030,
it is still a P -I use. Chair Holmes said to think of this being developed into a housing
complex is pretty far out there. Chair Holmes said this is private property and the City
does not have control beyond guiding. He said P -I guiding is broader than a golf course
but does not change the status of Hollydale. Chair Holmes said in reviewing the 2000
Comprehensive Plan with the current proposal, he is having a tough time not seeing where
the interests of the citizens are protected without the City coming out and saying we are
going to go in the golf business, and you won't get that. Chair Holmes said three bullet
points and a powerful paragraph succinctly puts the City's position in place to do what we
can to move forward without overstepping the boundaries of the property owners. He
asked Park and Recreation Director Blank to explain what would happen if the City did try
to preserve Hollydale as a golf course.
Park and Recreation Director Blank responded the City would do a complete study on the
economics, such as capital and operating costs, of the golf course. He said historically
determination for an expenditure of that kind would go to voters for a referendum. In order
to do that the City would present the facts about what it would cost to enter into the golf
business.
Commissioner Aamoth said the term "peace in the valley" was used to find a way to
compromise when he worked in the legislature. Commissioner Aamoth said he had no
objection to most of the first page, but the language "...Hollydale Golf Course would be
the most suitable for conversion to a publicly -owned facility." is confusing to him because
Council Member Black's edited version then states "The City will conduct an economic
evaluation of the financial viability of public ownership of a golf course." Commissioner
Aamoth said he would have more comfort with this item with the City Council language if
it's the right thing to do after an economic analysis.
Commissioner Davis said the third bullet on the petition troubles him because it singles out
Hollydale Golf Course to be preserved. He said Council Member Black submitted three
points, but the re -wording focus is away from Hollydale and on just a golf course.
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Commissioner Davis said Council Member Black has tightened up the language on golf
and hasn't changed the intent — it just narrows it down. Commissioner Davis suggested the
Planning Commission adopt Council Member Black's text.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if Council Member Black's text clarifies between 18 -hole
and 9 -hole golf courses.
Commissioner Davis agreed that the text in Bullet #2 strikes out the 18 -hole golf course
term, and he would like it to specify 18 holes.
Commissioner Jaffoni said everyone is very motivated and very concerned, which is
important to what it says about the City of Plymouth and our priorities. She said at the last
meeting she supported the original language or keeping a part of it, more than what was in
the current draft. Commissioner Jaffoni said she does think we should have more to say
than originally presented in the draft. She said she likes the language in Council Member
Black's petition that golf is important for three reasons. Commissioner Jaffoni said
Council Member Black's version doesn't appear to include a quality of life reason.
Commissioner Jaffoni said she would keep language about golf courses being important for
three reasons and would strike the types of golf section. She said she supported the
policies agreed with earlier and the comment about needing one publicly accessible 18 -hole
golf course. Commissioner Jaffoni said she preferred Council Member Black's language
for the third bullet which was not specific to Hollydale.
Chair Holmes said he has an issue with Council Member Black's third point directing the
City conduct an economic evaluation now.
Commissioner Davis reviewed that 1) the Planning Commission didn't like the petitioners'
third bullet, 2) Council Member Black said the City will conduct an economic evaluation
now, and 3) the Comprehensive Plan says if need determined to preserve public golf in
Plymouth we will then consider our economic options.
Commissioner Jaffoni agreed with Commissioner Davis, that the three bullets in current
draft are very appropriate. She said she likes the three reasons in the petition why golf
courses are important and would include those in addition to the three policies.
Chair Holmes agreed.
Commissioner Davis said there should be an introductory paragraph to policies related to
golf courses and recommended that Council Member Black's introductory paragraph be
included.
Commissioner Cooney agreed that Council Member Black's introductory paragraph be
included.
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Commissioner Aamoth asked if an economic evaluation is typical for the City for a more
comprehensive evaluation, and asked what encompasses financial viability.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said an economic study includes information on
number of rounds, revenue projections, and expenditures. The bottom line is can we break
even which is typically what the City tries to do with public facilities. He said the City
would address the issue of the capital expense of acquiring the commodity.
Planning Manager Senness summarized the rewording of the petition.
MOTION by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Aamoth, to recommend
approval of the draft Comprehensive Plan Update, subject to review by adjacent
communities and agencies and the Metropolitan Council.
Amendment by Commissioner Davis, seconded Commissioner Aamoth, recommending
the land use classification for property at 5605 Juneau Lane North be changed from LA -RT
to LA -R2. Vote. 4 Ayes. Amendment approved. Commissioner Jaffoni voting Nay.
Amendment by Commissioner Davis, seconded Commissioner Cooney, recommending
the land use classification for property at 5945 Troy Lane North be changed from LA -RT
to LA -R2. Vote. 4 Ayes. Amendment approved. Commissioner Jaffoni voting Nay.
Amendment by Commissioner Davis, seconded Commissioner Cooney, recommending
the land use classification for property at 6015 Troy Lane North be changed from LA -RT
to LA -R2. Vote. 4 Ayes. Amendment approved. Commissioner Jaffoni voting Nay.
Amendment by Commissioner Davis seconded Commissioner Jaffoni, recommending that
the Comprehensive Plan update for Book 2, Section 7A on golf courses be revised as
discussed and agreed upon. Vote. 5 ayes. Amendment approved.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
Community Development Director Juetten reviewed the amount of work involved in the
Comprehensive Plan update. He said many people worked hard on it, but special
recognition and thanks go to Planning Manager Senness for her time and effort.
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. APPROVE 2008 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING SCHEDULE
MOTION by Chair Holmes, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the 2008
Planning Commission Meeting Schedule. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
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8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Holmes, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 9:29 P.M.