HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 05-16-2007Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
May 16, 2007
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Holmes, Commissioners Karl Neset, James Davis,
Terry Jaffoni and Erik Aamoth
MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioners Frank Weir and John Cooney
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Shawn Drill,
Senior Planner Marie Darling, City Engineer Bob Moberg and Office Support
Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Jaffoni, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
May 16, 2007 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE MAY 2, 2007 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the
May 2, 2007 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
B. JOHN DAY COMPANY (2007027)
MOTION by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the
request by the John Day Company for a site plan and variance for a bank at the southeast
corner of 37th Avenue and Vicksburg Lane. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. FINN DANIELS ARCHITECTS (2006111)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Finn Daniels Architects for a comprehensive plan
amendment to the transportation plan to remove a planned minor collector roadway.
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Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the May 8, 2007 staff report.
Commissioner Neset asked if the traffic consultant had concerns about safety and traffic
counts with the proposed change.
Senior Planner Drill said SRF concluded there were no safety concerns or traffic volume
issues with the proposed change.
Commissioner Neset asked if police and fire reviewed the revised plan.
Senior Planner Drill said police and fire had no comments.
Chair Holmes introduced Scott Wiestling, Finn Daniels Architects. Mr. Wiestling said the
City Council tabled the proposal as there were concerns from the neighborhood, traffic
issues and restrictions on the site from the roadway. As a result the decision was made to
redesign the site, remove the 6th Avenue extension, and utilize two cul-de-sacs.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if there is a prospective tenant for the new building and if the
reduction in size would result in a reduction in the number of jobs.
Mr. Wiestling said there is no specific tenant to determine an effect from the 15,000 square
foot reduction.
Commissioner Neset asked if the project with the building reduction is economically as
viable as the 165,000 square foot building to attract a premier type tenant.
Mr. Wiestling said a 140,000 to 175,000 square foot building is in the ballpark. He said
the removal of the road creates a positive economic impact as the cost of the road and ramp
is replaced by costs for soil corrections for surface parking. Mr. Wiestling said the
northern portion of the site is now defined as not developable.
Chair Holmes opened the public hearing.
Chair Holmes introduced Karrie Petersen, 953 Trenton Lane. Ms. Petersen said the revised
proposal still looks to generate 1,500 cars coming through the neighborhood. She said the
traffic study only reviewed 4 points and did not account for traffic from the proposed office
building. She said residences and a senior complex back out on to the street. Ms. Petersen
said the proposed parking is much further into the developed area. She said the townhome
residents are still concerned about development going right through the wetlands. Ms.
Petersen said if there would be no development on the northern portion of the site, it should
be rezoned as a wetland and protected by the DNR. Ms. Petersen suggested moving the
exit up to 10th Avenue as that is the access point which is the direct outlet to Highway 169.
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Chair Holmes introduced Amie Crohn, 10522 8th Avenue North. Ms. Crohn said her
townhome is located next to the proposed street on 6th Avenue. Ms. Crohn said the 15,000
square foot decrease in building size won't make a big difference. She concurred with Ms.
Petersen's recommendation to put a street on the northwest side with access to 10th Avenue
rather than have the City pay for plowing and redevelopment of a road which would be a
private driveway to the proposed building. Ms. Crohn said there is already concern about
accidents at Highway 55 at Revere Lane and Highway 55 at South Shore Drive, and 1,650
cars would create a safety issue for children and seniors. Ms. Crohn said the two-story
parking structure being replaced by flat parking extending further into the wetlands does
not solve or resolve concerns about the parking.
Chair Holmes introduced Aaron Crohn, 10205 27th Avenue N. Mr. Crohn said he owns an
apartment building on South Shore Drive. Mr. Crohn said in August, 1997 the resolution
was for a 90,000 square foot building and he is opposed to the proposed 150,000 square
foot building. He said this building is enormous in size and does not have proper access
like Waterford Plaza, HealthWest or Target Greatland has. Mr. Crohn reiterated traffic
concerns for Revere Lane and South Shore Drive, and said WDOT does not want to give
access because of the increased traffic on Highway 55. He said if the builder wants to
build this and ruin nature and wetlands, the proper thing would be to go down 10th Avenue
and have him be responsible for his own property. He said 10th Avenue is 4—lane and
traffic can be diverted to South Shore Drive or Highway 169.
Chair Holmes introduced Brian Helmken, 1101 Urbandale lane. Mr. Helmken said he is
working with the applicant on this project. Mr. Helmken stated the access to the property
off 10th Avenue is not feasible for the office project. In response to Commissioner
Jaffoni's earlier question, Mr. Helmken said the reduction in square footage would equate
to roughly 60 employees.
Ms. Crohn asked why having the site traffic exit out on 10th Avenue won't work.
Chair Holmes closed the public hearing.
Chair Holmes asked about locations of the traffic counts.
City Engineer Moberg said the traffic study for the initial project, with a supplemental
study on the revised proposal, looked at significant intersections in the area, not every
single intersection. He said the additional effort to study more intersections would not
reveal anything new from traffic studies of major intersections.
Chair Holmes asked about the feasibility of accessing 10th Avenue and the option to rezone
the wetlands.
Senior Planner Drill said there is no wetland zoning classification and no need to rezone.
Senior Planner Drill said he talked with the applicant about a conservation easement on the
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northern portion of the site to preserve it. He said much of the area would be newly created
wetlands which would also be protected. Senior Planner Drill said that the developer has
expressed that driveway access to 10ffi Avenue wouldn't work from a marketing standpoint.
He pointed out the 1,600 trips per day would be split between the accesses on the east and
west side. Senior Planner Drill added that a round trip equals two trips.
Planning Manager Senness asked about the traffic distribution from the original traffic
study.
City Engineer Moberg said an estimate of traffic in terms of access is 80% at Revere Lane
and 20% off South Shore Drive is anticipated.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if the new proposal exacerbates traffic concerns or does this
proposal present different concerns for the neighborhood.
Planning Manager Senness said there are different concerns as the previous proposal
generated more traffic through the site. She said with the revised plan, they are looking at
reducing the traffic in the area.
Commissioner Jaffoni said she is struggling with the same traffic concerns as
Commissioner Aamoth. Commissioner Jaffoni said the 2000 Comp Plan indicates if this
site were to be developed the construction of this roadway was required. She asked what
was looked at that necessitated the need for the construction of the roadway at that time.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked what has changed now that a development proposal is here
and a new traffic study has been done.
Planning Manager Senness when the City prepared the plan in 2000, frontage roads along
Highway 55 were needed to take some trips off the higher order roadway, namely
Highway 55. Planning Manager Senness said this principle is still intact as SRF reviewed
reasonable roadway impact in this instance. She said technically the traffic will still
operate; but the larger question is whether to develop a secondary roadway through this
area.
City Engineer Moberg added that one primary reason the previous proposal was tabled is
the City Council was not comfortable with the proposed roadway alignment through the
site with a 90 degree intersection on the west side. He said short of redeveloping
additional properties to the west to improve the roadway alignment, the applicant felt the
best alternative was to eliminate the road.
Commissioner Neset asked if traffic counts for the original plan included traffic projections
for an LA -3 apartment building.
City Engineer Moberg said the initial study was for a proposed 165,000 square foot office
and a 70 -unit apartment building on the site.
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Commissioner Neset asked how many trips per day were effectively removed with the
building reduction and apartment building removal.
City Engineer Moberg said this resulted in a reduction of 500-600 trips per day.
Chair Holmes asked if the cul-de-sac on the east side would impact wetlands there.
Senior Planner Drill said this was constructed as a temporary water quality pond. He said
there are no setback issues with the nearest property line and the road would not be any
closer than it is now. Senior Planner Drill indicated the location where the street easement
exists and where the portion of pond would be relocated.
Chair Holmes introduced Arnie Crohn. For a point of reference on how close the street is
to her townhome, Ms. Crohn showed photos of her townhome deck indicating the pond
location and proposed parking lot. Ms. Crohn said this is very close and she is concerned
about noise at that side of house morning and evening.
City Engineer Moberg pointed out that at the time the townhome development was platted,
the street right-of-way was created with the plat and units would have been required to
satisfy the setback requirements. He said there is no deviation from that with this proposal.
He added that part of why the temporary storm water pond was created in the street right-
of-way was because the developer was trying to avoid excavating an area where there were
contaminated soils to the west.
Commissioner Neset asked about the specific height and nature of the proposed
landscaping and berming proposed. He said he is concerned about lights from cars
sweeping residential homes.
Mr. Wiestling said the berm would be roughly 8' high with taller, coniferous trees along
the parking lot.
Commissioner Neset said the berm with trees would be roughly 16-20 feet tall when
complete.
Mr. Wiestling answered affirmatively.
Commissioner Neset asked if there would be berming by the easternmost cul-de-sac or just
over -story trees.
Mr. Wiestling said there would be over -story trees and no berming for this area as there is
not enough room with the street easement in that area.
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Commissioner Aamoth discussed the 1,600 trips through neighborhood and asked at what
threshold the trips would become more of an issue. Commissioner Aamoth asked, relative
to traffic patterns through other neighborhoods, if this number of trips would be considered
high or manageable.
City Engineer Moberg said the Transportation Plan defines a minor collector as having
2,500 or fewer trips per day, and a major collector has 2,500 to 5,000 trips per day. City
Engineer Moberg said Revere Lane and
10th Avenue are major collectors and the frontage
road was classified as a minor collector. He said local streets have significant variance of
impact depending on the location and what type of function the street has. City Engineer
Moberg reiterated that the 1,600 trips per day would not be considered excessive for a local
street.
Commissioner Davis asked if the size reduction of the building changed the height.
Senior Planner Drill said the footprint of the building is smaller, but the height would
remain five stories.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked what the traffic count is for 6th Avenue, and how the increased
daily trips would affect the street portion behind Holiday and also west of 8th Avenue.
City Engineer Moberg said the City goes through a program every 2-3 years evaluating
traffic counts on municipal and state aid routes. City Engineer Moberg said he didn't
believe 6th Avenue is on that system but 10th Avenue is, and added counts would be taken
in 2007 for the Comprehensive Plan update.
Chair Holmes referenced Mr. Crohn's safety concerns for Highway 55 at South Shore and
Revere Lane. He asked who controls those intersections and what the plans are for
Highway 55.
City Engineer Moberg stated Trunk Highway 55 is under the jurisdiction of Mn/DOT and
they dictate access guidelines. He said there are 50,000 vehicles per day in this area and
they have interest in managing access to that corridor. In terms of plans, Mn/DOT is doing
a study west of I-494 out to the City of Rockford. City Engineer Moberg said is not aware
of any plans for Highway 55 east of I-494.
Commissioner Neset said the Planning Commission originally approved the proposal. He
said the revised plan shows a substantial decrease in traffic that could have been generated,
the builder has reduced space by 10% which they could have rented out, the apartment
building was removed, and a berm and landscaping totaling 16-20 feet would be installed.
Commissioner Neset said the builder has gone a long way to make this work. He said he
understands the neighborhood concerns as there is nothing back there presently, but the
property has been guided for development which is now occurring.
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MOTION by Commissioner Neset, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
request by Finn Daniels Architects for a comprehensive plan amendment to the
transportation plan to remove a planned minor collector roadway.
Commissioner Jaffoni said she feels she needs to be a traffic expert to make a decision.
Commissioner Jaffoni said she is concerned about the senior and pedestrian safety, but sees
Commissioner Neset's points. She said the developer has gone through a number of
concessions to make the development more palatable to the homeowners and she would
support the proposal.
Commissioner Davis said they discussed this project two months ago and heard concerns
from the neighborhood. He said the developer made changes as suggested by the Planning
Commission, neighborhood and City Council. Commissioner Davis said this is a better
plan and he is an advocate of an office building that fits in with the street and will bring
good -paying jobs to the City. Commissioner Davis said he would support the motion.
Commissioner Aamoth echoed the comments of the Commissioners, and said it is
important for the Planning Commission to consider the plan amendment at this time, as the
Council will discuss the specifics of the site plan. Under that realm, it is important to
approve this proposal. He said the balance of having jobs in the City and allowing the
developer to develop the site is important. Commissioner Aamoth said he would support
the proposal.
Chair Holmes echoed the Commissioners' support for the project. He said this proposal is
a vast improvement and is a vital development for this area. Chair Holmes said this
property has long been vacant and said he feels this is a workable, creative plan that he will
support.
Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
B. VLADIMIR AND ANDREA KELMAN (2007040)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Vladimir and Andrea Kelman for a conditional use
permit to allow construction of an attached garage that would exceed 1,000 square feet in
gross floor area, for property located at 1010 Garland Lane N.
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the May 8, 2007 staff report.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked for clarification about the square footage of the living area
and the potential of space that could be added.
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Senior Planner Darling said the 1,904 square feet of garage space would not be finished
except for storage. Senior Planner Darling said it is common for the initial building permit
to be issued without the lower level finished.
MOTION by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Neset, to approve the
request by Vladimir and Andrea Kelman for a conditional use permit to allow construction
of an attached garage that would exceed 1,000 square feet in gross floor area, for property
located at 1010 Garland Lane N. Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved
unanimously.
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (2005050)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by the City of Plymouth for the Plymouth
Comprehensive Plan Update—preliminary land use for existing urban service area.
Planning Manager Senness gave an overview of the May 2, 2007 staff report. Planning
Manager Senness said an e-mail from Rob Rappaport, representing Four Season Mall and
opposing the guiding change to that property, was added to the public record.
Chair Holmes introduced Jim Melcher, Tri-State Drilling, Inc., 16940 Highway 55. Mr.
Melcher said Dundee and Tri-State properties in Area G are troubled by text on the Area G
map indicating any redevelopment would need to include both parcels. He said the direct
accesses to Highway 55 are on Tri -State's property. Mr. Melcher asked if redevelopment
occurs at Dundee only, whether the State would close the accesses on Tri -State's property.
City Engineer Moberg said it would be very difficult for the State to close an access on a
piece of property that adjoins another property. He said if Dundee had an access it would
be apparent, but to try to impose closure of an access on an adjoining property would be a
challenge for the State.
Mr. Melcher said there is a certain inaccuracy in the text as it is stated. If Tri-State closes,
that would affect Dundee's access. He said he is not sure it is legal and anyone considering
acquiring Tri-State as a business would consider this part of the asset and would not want
encumbrances. Mr. Melcher said this makes it difficult to contemplate selling the business
for market value. He said the text could state "redevelopment would need to include both
parcels." Mr. Melcher asked if Tri-State could add square footage to the office space
without invoking the redevelopment clause.
Planning Manager Senness said expansion would not be possible with the proposed
guiding and subsequent zoning change. She said they could not change the footprint of the
buildings.
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Mr. Melcher said that is a hardship as they don't have storage for equipment or pipes as
they are disbursed nationwide, with main projects in Connecticut and in northern
Wisconsin. He aid they are not contemplating expanding the business to grow but might
need to add an engineer.
Chair Holmes introduced Kevin Theis, Dundee Nursery, 16800 Highway 55. Mr. Theis
reiterated Mr. Melcher's concerns over tying the two sites together and whether this was
legal. He said he is a second generation owner of Dundee and expressed concern about
being tied into a Commercial Office guiding and not being able to expand the business. He
noted the previous Saturday they were extra busy, and it would be nice in 10 or 15 years to
work with the City to become bigger. Mr. Theis said the proposed change would not allow
the business to expand and that is disconcerting to him.
Chair Holmes introduced Roger Eggen, 9905 41St Ave N. Mr. Eggen said he represents the
Middle East Homeowners Association which is the neighborhood west of Four Seasons
Shopping Center. He said many neighbors have been there 40+ years, have participated in
land use guidelines and development in the area. He said Four Seasons Shopping Center
has not quite lived up to guiding and zoning expectations. Mr. Eggen said the neighbors
are against Rob Rappaport having both C and CO guiding, noting that he wants the best of
both worlds and they are not sure this is the best for the area. Mr. Eggen said
overwhelmingly the neighbors are not concerned about the guiding change but are
concerned about having a safe neighborhood. Mr. Eggen cited two bank robberies, one
recent. Mr. Eggen said another concern is traffic. He said rush hour at Pilgrim Lane and
Lancaster Lane has a high volume of park and ride traffic. Mr. Eggen said numerous bus
services exist in the area. He said Metro Link advertises riding as stress free and
convenient but the noise and stress of bus traffic gets transferred to the neighborhood. Mr.
Eggen said he has the impression the owner of Four Seasons is trying to force the City to
buy property between Co. Rd. 9 and Lancaster Lane for a park and ride. He said in 2003
the City rejected that as an untenable situation. He cited existing noise in the area and said
a park and ride could not be screened. Mr. Eggen said aggressive marketing is needed to
lease out space in the shopping center. Mr. Eggen asked why the sketch of the park and
ride facility and an e-mail from Mr. Rappaport were not included in the informational
materials.
Planning Manager Senness said she was not aware of the e-mail. She said there were a
number of issues with the sketch plan which include setbacks from Co. Rd. 9 and
Lancaster Lane and the ability to provide screening. She added there have been changes
since that plan was developed, such as the Kaplan business school and additional parking
in the area which would have been the access to the park and ride. Planning Manager
Senness noted that the plan is a part of the public record.
Commissioner Davis asked if Mr. Eggen supports proposed change.
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Mr. Eggen said he doesn't care what happens with the guiding. He said he does oppose
having the transit station on the narrow strip west of the shopping center.
Chair Holmes introduced Linda Fisher, 7900 Xerxes South, Larkin, Hofftnan Law Firm.
Ms. Fisher said she is representing six industrial entities in Area H: Medicine Lake
Properties, United Products, Ryerson Steel, Cormark (formerly Minter Weisman), Hedberg
Aggregates, and TriCor Properties managed by Welsh Properties. Ms. Fisher stated they
collectively oppose the proposed reguiding. She said she represented these entities in 1999
for a similar reguiding which the Council chose not to proceed with. Ms. Fisher said some
of these property owners just learned of the proposed guiding and just retained her services
this afternoon. She said a memo will be prepared for the City Council. Ms. Fisher said
these businesses control a substantial amount of industrial area and have close to 1,000
employees, many of whom are Plymouth residents. She said several million dollars have
been spent to improve and maintain this vibrant and growing industrial area and they are an
important part of the Plymouth tax base. Ms. Fisher stated these entities intend to remain a
part of the community for the life of the Comprehensive Plan through 2030. Therefore,
they would become non -conforming uses under the proposed reguiding. Ms. Fisher echoed
Mr. Melcher's concerns that a business could not expand nor move to another location on
the same property. She said this makes a property difficult to market and non -conforming
uses make insurance coverage more difficult to maintain. Ms. Fisher said properties
reguided to LA -3 would have a substantially diminished value. Ms. Fisher said these
properties are not blighted or substandard. She said if a property is substantially
undeveloped or underdeveloped, you need to think long term to attract development unless
the City proactively seeks to redevelop the property. Redevelopment is more uncertain and
extremely difficult because of changes to eminent domain. Ms. Fisher said without willing
buyers and sellers, it would be very difficult. Ms. Fisher pointed out there is good highway
access and they are separate from the neighborhood. She acknowledged there are some
challenges operating near Medicine Lake, but Ryerson, for example, has worked with the
City to install a holding pond. She said these businesses are willing to work on
environmental issues and could continue if guiding remains industrial. Ms. Fisher said one
area adjacent to Highway 169 is proposed to remain industrial and questioned whether it is
appropriate for that area to remain industrial when a number of other properties have had
expansions.
Chair Holmes introduced Mark Holtan, 1304 W. Medicine Lake Drive #101. Mr. Holtan
addressed Area E and reguiding the Little Peninsula. Mr. Holtan said Sunrise Bay
Condominiums have a private road and asked about easement requirements or restrictions
to access the peninsula. Mr. Holtan said he thinks the proposed guiding is better but the
peninsula is still a very small area for any kind of development. He said the 80 residents at
Sunrise Bay concur.
Planning Manager Senness said the property owner is working with the DNR and Army
Corps of Engineers regarding jurisdiction and public access.
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Mr. Holtan said if there were two or three residences, would there have to be a public
access.
Planning Manager Senness responded affirmatively and said the easement is private. She
stated that any public access to the peninsula would need to be tied to another public
access.
Chair Holmes introduced Erika Urban, 1541 W. Medicine Lake Drive. Ms. Urban said she
is in favor of down zoning the Little Peninsula, which has a long history of development
options. She said she is a member of AMLAC and the neighbors have constant fear of the
little peninsula being developed. Ms. Urban said the 1-3 homes might be mega -homes.
She said she hopes eventually a park would be there. Ms. Urban said LA -1 would go a
long way to avoid a disastrous development and she is in favor of it.
Chair Holmes introduced Jim Touve, 17316 Peterberg Road, Eden Prairie, who said he
owns the Little Peninsula. Mr. Touve said he wondered why there is a proposed zoning
change as his intentions are still to develop one or two, and no more than three houses on
the site. He said part of the legal record of covenants on this property state this, and the
Medicine Lake neighbors liked that in 1998. Mr. Touve said he has growing concerns
about the site being complicated by the agenda of some people. Mr. Touve said right now
he is looking at one house for the 12 -acre site, but knows that someone's agenda is not
going to like that. He said if the City could save some money by not continuing with the
rezoning process, the City should do that. Mr. Touve said he needs friends, not problems
and he may have to turn this property over to someone else.
Area E Discussion
Commissioner Davis said Mr. Touve agrees with the land use guide change because his
intention is to build only 3 houses. Commissioner Davis said a new owner might not share
his ideas and the guiding change makes it part of the record.
Commissioner Neset concurred with Commissioner Davis and said this guiding change is
definitely something we should support.
Commissioner Jaffoni said she succinctly supports that change as it is consistent with the
limited development potential and the history of the area.
Commissioner Aamoth and Chair Holmes echoed support for the proposed change. All in
favor of support for Area E.
Vote. 5 Ayes.
Area F Discussion
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Commissioner Davis said he is unsure about who supports and opposes the proposed
guiding changes for the Four Seasons Mall. He said the owner does not support changes
but is trying to force our hand about a park and ride.
Commissioner Neset said the intent is to open up guiding to encourage a wider range of
potential uses for the area.
Planning Manager Senness said an office use would be more compatible with the
residential development adjacent to the area. She said redevelopment with a commercial
use would necessarily be more intense than the existing development, but an office use
would likely be a Monday to Friday use and would be more in keeping with residential
surroundings.
Commissioner Neset said he lived in this area 10 years ago and thinks that it makes more
sense for the area to be reguided to a commercial office use.
Chair Holmes said if the shopping center comes down, it would be replaced with offices.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if the guiding change would hamper the efforts of the property
owner to secure leases for vacancies.
Planning Manager Senness said the entire shopping center would have to be vacant for one
year before retail uses would not be allowed.
Commissioner Jaffoni said the shopping center could then revert to an office or mixed use.
Planning Manager Senness agreed and said the only thing the owner could not do is expand
the current center.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked why the property owner wants to relocate the park and ride to
the west side of the site.
Planning Manager Senness said the owner feels the area where the park and ride is located
could better be used for a more intense use than a park and ride, and he would like to
utilize the narrow piece of land on the west side. Planning Manager Senness said the
setbacks and required screening make it very difficult to make that work.
Chair Holmes said an important part is endorsing the transportation facility, not in the strip
but in the mall area. He said he would support any type of mass transit with gas at $3.00+
per gallon. Chair Holmes said he has observed traffic at the new Co. Rd. 73 station which
has turned out to be a nice facility.
Commissioner Jaffoni concurred with Chair Holmes.
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Commissioner Aamoth said the residents have voiced many concerns, and he is empathetic
to their larger concerns and the City will do what it can to keep the neighborhood safe.
Commissioner Aamoth said he thinks the reguiding makes sense for the area.
Commissioner Jaffoni said the change from Commercial to Commercial Office makes
more of a mixed use which could improve the safety of the neighborhood. She said office
workers commuting daily, rather than retail, could help with safety and noise concerns.
Commissioner Davis noted they just heard neighbors complain about an office building
going in their neighborhood (Item 6A Finn Daniels Architects). He said he thinks the
proposed guiding might be better than what exists and is a better deal for the City.
Commissioner Davis said he is concerned if it stays commercial there will be a Wal-Mart
there which would make the neighborhood even unhappier. Commissioner Davis said it is
better to take a little control at this point.
Vote. 5 Ayes.
Area G Discussion
Commissioner Neset asked about Tri -State's ability to retain Highway 55 access if Dundee
Nursery were to redevelop.
Chair Holmes said Dundee has no access to Highway 55.
Commissioner Davis said that is why both parcels need to redevelop at the same time to
alleviate the access.
Commissioner Neset stated this language needs to be addressed.
Planning Manager Senness said the City and Mn/DOT would not allow a situation where
someone would not have appropriate access. She said if Dundee has been using that access
for years, it may be difficult to take away. Dundee does have other access that Tri-State
does not have.
Commissioner Davis reviewed that if Tri-State is redeveloped Mn/DOT would not let a
new property access Highway 55 as the goal is to eliminate access. Tri-State could not
redevelop unless both properties redevelop, so Tri-State could not go first.
Commissioner Jaffoni said if these properties are reguided Commercial Office, neither
business could redevelop. She said she is definitely concerned as both businesses have
some plans to expand. Commissioner Jaffoni said these are two businesses that have been
there a long time and are good businesses for Plymouth. She said her biggest concern is
the limitation on those businesses.
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Commissioner Neset echoed Commissioner Jaffoni's comments. He said it is awkward
that properties are tied together by the access. He said Tri-State could not develop first.
Commissioner Neset said neither business has plans of selling and moving on.
Commissioner Neset said the timing may not be right for recommending a change for the
land use guide plan.
MOTION by Commissioner Neset, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to deny the request
to reguide from Commercial to Commercial Office for the Dundee and Tri-State
properties.
Commissioner Davis said a message is being given to Dundee and Tri-State that we want
you to move out. He said these are two viable businesses in Plymouth and they should be
welcomed. Commissioner Davis said this is not the time to make a guiding change.
Commissioner Davis said there is possible expansion planned for both businesses and he
definitely will not support the proposed change.
Commissioner Jaffoni concurred with Commissioner Davis.
City Engineer Moberg asked about the proposed change to P -I for the area east of Rockford
Road.
Chair Holmes said the east parcel should be P -I.
Commissioner Neset said he is not opposed to the Tri-State and Dundee property being
reguided Commercial at a later time, but the timing is not wise right now.
Chair Holmes said the Tri-State property is virtually not developable, regardless of guiding,
because it does not have access to Highway 55. Chair Holmes said certain uses outlive
their time in a location. He said he would support the recommendation to reguide to
Commercial Office.
Vote. 4 Ayes. Chair Holmes opposed. Chair Holmes said he not opposed to the P -I
guiding for the eastern parcel.
Area H Discussion
Commissioner Davis said he spoke strongly at the City Council meeting to leave these
properties industrial. He said he does not see the point in taking these businesses and
chasing them out of the City. MOTION by Commissioner Davis to deny the proposed
guiding changes for Area H.
Commissioner Neset said he understands the businesses have been there a long time and
needed to hear the businesses organize their opposition. He said the question is when to
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 16, 2007
Page 15
take Commercial Office and change it to LA -3. Commissioner Neset said the existing
property owner feels strongly enough that he will not support the proposed change.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if any of these businesses have expansion plans.
Planning Manager Senness said she was not aware of any plans to expand at this time. She
said one property owner may have plans for part of a site that is currently underutilized.
Commissioner Jaffoni said what we are running into is a vision of the Comprehensive Plan
down the road. She said this is a key area which is visible as you enter Plymouth from the
east. Commissioner Jaffoni said that may be what we wish for, but concurred with
Commissioners Neset and Davis that we can't ignore feelings and potential expansion
plans, and obvious concerns of businesses which exist now. She said these businesses
have been there for many years, and the reguiding to Commercial Office would limit them
in some ways. Commissioner Jaffoni said she understands why the change is proposed but
it is premature, and she would support no change from current guiding to this whole area at
this time.
Commissioner Aamoth said this has been a great learning experience to see the impact to
the companies that do business there. He said we need to have a valid reason and clear
purpose in making a change. Commissioner Aamoth concurred with Commissioner Davis
to leave the zoning as is.
Commissioner Davis said he doesn't want to see all industrial areas get squeezed out. He
said this is a viable industrial area and wants to keep it that way.
Chair Holmes said he concurred with the Commissioners' comments, but asked what is
there today relative to what could be there. He said at some point in time these properties
will go residential, but now is not the time. Chair Holmes said the residential properties
could shift to the east. He said when a developer comes in with a proposal with willing
buyers and sellers then change could occur.
Vote. 5 Ayes.
Area I Discussion
Commissioner Davis said he is opposed as these are viable industrial properties.
Chair Holmes said the downtown Plymouth area needs to be worked on. He said this is an
anchor location and now is the right time to make changes.
Commissioner Davis asked about the parcel east of Area I, and why that has not changed.
Planning Manager Senness said this is a relatively new use within the last 3 years.
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Planning Commission Minutes
May 16, 2007
Page 16
Vote. 4 Ayes. Commissioner Davis opposed.
8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Holmes, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 10:14 p.m.