HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 05-02-2007Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
May 2, 2007
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Holmes, Commissioners Frank Weir, Karl Neset,
James Davis, Terry Jaffoni and Erik Aamoth
MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioner John Cooney
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Shawn Drill,
Senior Planner Marie Darling, Planner Joshua Doty, City Engineer Bob Moberg and Office
Support Specialist Laurie Lokken
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the May
2, 2007 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE APRIL 18, 2007 PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the April
18, 2007 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved.
6. NEW BUSINESS
A. HANS HAGEN HOMES, INC. (2007020)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Hans Hagen Homes, Inc. for a Planned Unit
Development (PUD) amendment to replace an existing changeable copy sign with an
electronic changeable copy sign in the sign kiosk at Plymouth Station located at 16605
County Road 24.
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the April 24, 2007 staff report.
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Commissioner Aamoth asked if staff has any studies that show a direct correlation between
electronic signs and increased traffic problems. Senior Planner Darling said that the larger
the sign, the more data that is available. Commissioner Aamoth asked if those studies are
for signs that have blinking lights or for flashing trailers. Senior Planner Darling said staff
has none to date for smaller electronic signs.
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, John Rask, representing Hans Hagen Homes, Inc.
Mr. Rask gave an overview on the history of the development of the shopping center, the
number of tenants in the center and the sign needs for the center. He said that currently,
each tenant gets to reserve a certain amount of time on the kiosk. There are 27 tenants, so
each tenant gets about two weeks a year. He said it is important to consider the number of
tenants that would benefit and be able to utilize this signage. He said that it is also
important to note how it fits in to the comprehensive sign plan that was approved by the
City Council as part of this development.
Mr. Rask said the signage is tastefully done and they try to respect tenants' desires to
advertise their businesses. He said they are trying to avoid proliferation of temporary signs
as they have struggled to enforce their rules. He said their kiosk and the proposal are well
designed signage that won't clutter up this site. He said that the kiosk has served its
purpose in that regard. He said that the sign proposed is an electronic message sign, which
is no different than what's there now. He said that instead of getting on a ladder to change
letters, they can change it via keyboard.
Mr. Rask said that they have looked at a lot of studies and that they don't want to propose
anything that isn't safe. He said that studies find that if you have the appropriate size font
that is readable, it is not considered a distraction. He said this is not a safety concern
because studies have shown that it is not a distraction if done well and that it's a matter of
aesthetics. He said they are decreasing the amount of changeable signage.
Mr. Rask said this type of request does not set a legal precedent as this is a PUD. He said
they are trying to improve the aesthetics, the look of the sign and it is easier to change the
message.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if all the tenants are on board with the change. Mr. Rask
said that due to the uncertain nature of the application, they have not talked to all of the
tenants yet. Commissioner Aamoth asked if there were any estimates on the financial
impact for the tenants with more visibility. Mr. Rask said that under the City regulations,
they are allowed to change the message three to four times per hour and that they plan to
have one tenant message at a time. Commissioner Aamoth asked how long it would take
to change the message on the new sign. Mr. Rask said it would be done simultaneously
from their office.
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Commissioner Aamoth asked who would be responsible for the cost to bring down the sign
if it is erected. Mr. Rask said that as the property owner, they would be responsible for
putting up and taking down the sign.
Commissioner Davis asked what impact this would have on small signs that are seen along
the property. Mr. Rask said that each tenant lease states that they are not allowed to have
temporary signs on the premises or in windows. He said he thought this would provide a
more effective means to meet their needs and would reduce those problems.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
Commissioner Neset stated that he understands the concerns for safety but he is inclined to
push this through in a positive way. He said he likes the way the sign looks, that he is not a
fan of the current sign and this sign is cleaner, as long as it is not flashing to distract traffic.
He said he liked that it would impact the signs placed temporarily on property and in
windows. He said this sign would be an improvement to the site overall and he would
support approval of this request.
Commissioner Davis asked if this request is approved, whether all the other rules in the
ordinance about signs still apply about how many times a day they can change it and about
flashing and scrolling. Senior Planner Darling said that the Planning Commission can
include those as conditions and could also add additional conditions as well. She said that
Plymouth Station is a PUD, so the Planning Commission can customize the standards. She
said that if the Planning Commission recommends approval, it should be subject to the
standard conditions in the zoning ordinance.
Commissioner Weir asked how the size of the print will affect the size of the signage.
Senior Planner Darling said because the center is a PUD, there is some ability to customize
the size of letters. She said that if a larger sign is approved without specific findings, staff
is worried that will open the ordinance to challenge when other developments are told they
cannot exceed 25%. Planning Manager Senness added that when the City looked at
changing the ordinance to add electronic signs for up to 25% of the sign, it was for the
Waterford Center where there is an unusual situation due to difficulty in seeing the
individual tenant signage. She said this center has somewhat similar circumstances. She
said there may be difficulty if other applicants would come forward, the City may not be
able to find a basis to say no.
Commissioner Davis asked if the applicant wanted to have an electronic reader board as
25% of the sign, whether that would be the face of the sign or the total dimension of the
sign and how would that be reviewed. Senior Planner Darling said that the proposal is for
77% now and if they had proposed 25% of the sign, that could have been approved
administratively. Mr. Rask added that they have a lot less signage than the other center
referenced and they would be happy to restrict to this signage as it is today.
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Planning Manager Senness said that signage is in a state of change right now. She said that
at the last ordinance revision, the City Attorney had stated that the ordinance would be
back again very soon because of the state of technology and costs becoming affordable for
more businesses to have this type of signage. She said that staff has a concern for making a
decision that could affect a lot of other signage without doing it in a larger context for the
rest of the City.
Commissioner Davis asked if ordinance changes are being looked at now so that possibly
in the future if something is changed, the applicant could come back under a new
ordinance. Planning Manager Senness said that there will be changes made to the sign
ordinance in the next year update.
Commissioner Weir stated that he understands the client would like to have an electronic
sign and since it's not changing frequently, he certainly empathizes with them. He said
that he is concerned that if this is approved now it could open doors to a lot more than what
the City is willing to do right now.
Commissioner Aamoth stated that the size is not as important a measure as whether the
ordinance fits or not. He said he would be comfortable if more applicants came with same
request. He said that taking care of the blinking issue and the ones on trailers are more
distracting than size. He said he spoke with Mn/DOT and it is appropriate to regulate the
frequency of message changes and at the frequency the City allows, there should be no
issue. He said he supports Commissioner Neset's position and would also vote to approve
and have the City Council look at this request. He said this is the right thing to do for the
businesses in this community and the concern about the traffic is not so strong that that
should trump the interest of the businesses.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if this is approved and more applicants come in before there is
time to make any changes to the zoning ordinance, what the legal allegations are at that
point for having established precedence. Planning Manager Senness said that findings that
would be specific to this center can be crafted but that she is not sure there are
characteristics that are different from other centers that can make that differentiation. She
said that if other applicants came forward, there would be a variance situation until the
Planning Commission and City Council looked at changing the ordinance.
Commissioner Jaffoni stated that if a whole series came forward as a result of these
decisions and if the zoning ordinance is not changed, there is not much the Planning
Commission can do. Planning Manager Senness said they can still say no to the others but
there would still have to be a good basis to do it.
Chair Holmes stated that in looking at this request there is not a lot of question that the new
sign is more aesthetically pleasing than the old sign. He stated that the issue is that there is
a new technology layer being brought into signage that really hasn't been contemplated
from the City standpoint. He said that he would look at approving this sign but limiting the
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number of changes to once per day, since the goal of the sign is to give awareness of the
tenant. He asked that staff work on illumination issues in defining the electronic sign
versus the backlit sign in the lighting ordinance and the limitations so parameters can be
given of what can and cannot be done on signage. He said that he understands that if it had
been 25% of sign space, the request wouldn't be before the Planning Commission and it is
the larger size that makes this request subject to the Commission's review. He said that he
is in favor of newer and better looking signs but the City needs to drastically control the
changes on the sign and the lighting.
Commissioner Weir stated that he is not opposed to what is being proposed; however, the
whole picture needs to be looked at before approving.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Chair Holmes, to deny the request by
Hans Hagen Homes, Inc. for a PUD amendment to replace an existing changeable copy
sign with an electronic changeable copy sign in the sign kiosk at Plymouth Station located
at 16605 County Road 24.
Commissioner Davis stated that the sign proposed seems to be an improvement over the
current sign but he is concerned about opening up a can of worms. He stated that he is not
a fan of electronic signs and that he supports the denial of the request.
Roll Call Vote. 3 Ayes. MOTION failed (Commissioners Neset, Aamoth and Holmes
voted nay). Item referred to the City Council subject to the comments of the discussion.
B. DANIEL & MARY BALLOY (2007030)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Daniel and Mary Balloy for an interim use permit
to allow construction of a new home prior to demolition of an existing home for property
located at 2385 West Medicine Lake Boulevard.
Planner Doty gave an overview of the April 24, 2007 staff report.
Commissioner Weir asked if the applicant will be using the garage attached to the existing
house or using the detached garage during construction. Planner Doty said that during
construction of the new home, the existing garage would only be used for storage and that
the applicant would need to use the detached garage for parking vehicles.
Chair Holmes asked what the plan is to get the refuse off the property when the old
structure is taken down. Planner Doty said that the applicant has permission from the
property owner to the south to place a dumpster on their property for removal.
Chair Holmes asked if repair to the stairway on the property that goes to the lake is
included in the construction plan. Planner Doty said that the plans do not indicate any
changes to this stairwell.
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Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Dan Balloy, 2385 West Medicine Lake Boulevard.
Mr. Balloy stated that he had no comments or questions to add.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
request by Daniel and Mary Balloy for an interim use permit to allow construction of a new
home prior to demolition of an existing home for property located at 2385 West Medicine
Lake Boulevard. Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
C. O'BRESKY CLEANERS, INC. (2007031)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by O'Bresky Cleaners, Inc. for a zoning ordinance
text amendment to allow dry cleaning with processing facilities as an allowed use in the
commercial zoning districts.
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the April 24, 2007 staff report.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if a different dry cleaner came to the Planning Commission
with a similar proposal, would they also have to use the same chemicals. Senior Planner
Darling said they would not have to use the same chemicals as there are other alternatives
they can use. She said that staff wrote the ordinance to be open to the type of chemicals
used because technology changes so quickly.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked how much hazardous chemicals can be involved for the
minimal hazardous waste generator license. Senior Planner Darling said it is ten gallons a
year. Commissioner Jaffoni asked if this request is approved and this business is not a
minimal waste generator because of the use of the other chemical, will it set a precedent
that minimal waste generators will also be accepted in the commercial zoning districts.
Senior Planner Darling said that for dry cleaning processing facilities, staff is requesting to
alter the zoning ordinance itself so it limits dry cleaning businesses to those that are
minimal waste generators or those that generate no hazardous waste because many dry
cleaners use less hazardous waste processing but still use hazardous chemicals as spot
treatments.
Planning Manager Senness asked for clarification that the county only does minimal
regulations for those that are minimal waste generators because they have found it is not a
major concern. Senior Planner Darling said that staff is comfortable recommending this
situation because with a minimal generator, the county does an initial inspection of the
business and they monitor them from time to time. She said that they don't do regular
inspections because the amount of hazardous waste on site is quite small.
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Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Daniel O'Bresky, representing O'Bresky Cleaners,
Inc. Mr. O'Bresky said that the dry cleaning industry is going to undergo a very major
change due to chemical issues. He said they are looking at the opportunity to go to a very
safe process, to provide a better product for customers and because the hazards to workers
and to the environment are minimal. He said that spotting chemicals are used in drops. He
said that dry cleaning with hazardous materials is allowed in industrial areas but studies
show that if service is provided right at the store where customers can walk in and see
where their clothes are being handled, sales are 50 to 100% higher. He said that another
issue is the fuel savings by not transporting clothes back and forth. He said that they may
service a couple of drop stores that don't have plants in them out of this retail location but
the main focus is going to be retail locations.
Chair Holmes introduced Michael Gates, representing the dry cleaning franchise. Mr.
Gates stated he was there to answer any technical questions that the Planning Commission
may have.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
Commissioner Davis asked why the size limit of the dry cleaning processing facility as
suggested in the staff report is not included in the ordinance language that is proposed.
Senior Planner Darling said that staff did not include that particular limitation as they
found the use to be compatible to others without the size restriction.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Neset, to approve the
request by O'Bresky Cleaners, Inc. for a zoning ordinance text amendment to allow dry
cleaning with processing facilities as an allowed use in the commercial zoning districts.
Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
D. CAMP BOW WOW (2007033)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Camp Bow Wow for a zoning ordinance text
amendment, site plan amendment and conditional use permit to allow a dog day/overnight
boarding use with an outdoor play area at 2067 East Center Circle, Building 6.
Planner Doty gave an overview of the April 24, 2007 staff report.
Commissioner Neset said that this is being proposed for an industrial district and asked
what the neighbor's impact would be on the dogs to keep them calm and quiet. He asked if
they will be staffed overnight and how emergencies will be handled. Planner Doty said
that the majority of the building is warehouse space and that the facility would not be
staffed at night. Planner Doty referred to the applicant to respond to the handling of
emergencies.
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Commissioner Davis asked if there is any place in the City of Plymouth that this facility
could go in right now. Planner Doty said not without a change to the zoning ordinance
text.
Commissioner Davis asked for the difference between this facility and a kennel. Planner
Doty said that a kennel can include the permanent storage of dogs and is not intended for
day and overnight boarding on a temporary basis. Planning Manager Senness added that
the zoning ordinance only allows for a kennel in conjunction with a veterinary operation
and since the applicant doesn't plan to do that, there needs to be a change to the zoning
ordinance.
Commissioner Davis asked if any interior noise is the responsibility of the owners, the
tenant or the City if one tenant objected about another tenant. Planner Doty said that the
City would respond to any complaints and contact the owner. Planning Manager Senness
said that the Burnsville Camp Bow Wow location is a multi -tenant building and they are
currently working on some insulation along pipes so that noise doesn't travel between
tenants. She said that the City would consider complaints but that property management
would likely be on top of that issue. She added that this was a location that the property
owner said would work for the applicant.
Commissioner Jaffoni said that the zoning ordinance text amendment is not specific to this
particular site but to districts, so Commissioner Neset's observation that animals going into
a heavy industrial district environment could be a different situation where there is quite a
bit of disturbance to the animals. She asked that if this change was made to the I-2 district,
would it also be allowed in the 1-3 district or can it be limited to I-2. Planning Manager
Senness said that it could be added that the use would not be allowed in 1-3. She said that
most of the I-3 uses in the community are not in multi -tenant buildings but are singles users
and would be self -policing; whereby, a particular property manager or owner is going to
make sure their tenants are properly protected so that the stay.
Chair Holmes asked that if things go down the wrong path with a conditional use permit, if
the use could be taken away. Planning Manager Senness said that is correct.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if staff had received any feedback from notices that were sent
out. Planner Doty said that staff did receive one visit at City Hall from a business owner
located a distance away and they had no issues. Planning Manager Senness added that the
City of Plymouth exceeds notice requirements for anyone potentially affected.
Chair Holmes introduced Jeff Hall, representing Camp Bow Wow, 14305 Ewing Avenue
South in Burnsville. Mr. Hall stated that they are part of a nationally franchised boarding
facility and that a number of locations had tried to have staff available at night. He said
that the dogs were aware of the staff and stayed up all night so they have abandoned that
practice all across the country. He said that they have door alarms, glass alarms, motion
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detectors and temperature sensors and that the Burnsville Fire Department and Police
Department have emergency evacuation plans on file.
Commissioner Davis asked if a sprinkler system is required in this facility. Mr. Hall
responded that they do have a sprinkler system.
Commissioner Neset asked about the evacuation plans. He asked that if these dogs are all
secured in individual kennels at night, would all the kennels be able to be opened quickly
and would they be opened by firefighters. Mr. Hall said the kennels have individual
latches that are easily opened and they would be opened by firefighters in the same
procedure as for a veterinary clinic.
Chair Holmes introduced Raymond Vaughn, representing Carlson Real Estate Co. Mr.
Vaughn said that noise would not affect the dogs. He said the building has sprinklers and
is up to all fire/safety codes for the City of Plymouth. He said that this location will work
out the best for the applicant.
Chair Holmes introduced Mary Jo Bailey from Bailey Properties, representing Camp Bow
Wow. Ms. Bailey said that one of the challenges is finding a site that is set up to allow this
type of use. She said that dogs are dropped off in the morning, similar to a day care, and
stay all day long. She said that rather than being in kennels all day, they have eight play
areas for the dogs to interact with each other and expend their energy. She said that they
have web cam sites for owners to see their dogs. She said that the dogs are very busy in the
mornings and by afternoon, it is common to see them sleeping. She said that they looked
extensively in the area for a site and feels that this site is the best.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked how much of their business is for dog day care and how much
is for overnight boarding. Ms. Bailey said that the vast majority is for dog day care and the
boarding is for the day care customer. Mr. Hall added that Monday through Thursday there
is more day care than boarding but that on weekends and holidays, there is a lot more
boarding. He said that any dog attending the facility goes through an interview process.
He said that customers are looking for a safe, clean place for their dogs and they cannot
have vicious dogs.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if they work with an area veterinarian to control any outbreaks
of disease. Mr. Hall said that their staff has been trained in emergency procedures and that
they do work with several veterinarians, with one set as the primary veterinarian during the
day.
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Mr. Netley, representing Camp Bow Wow. Mr.
Netley said that he will run the facility as part owner and will be there every day.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
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Planning Manager Senness said that this is clearly a use that seems to be emerging and was
not something that was allowed in the City before. She said that staff has viewed the
Burnsville facility and found it to be a very impressive facility on the inside with no noise
concerns outside.
Commissioner Weir asked about the concern that was raised to limit this to the I-2 district.
Planning Manager Senness said that this could be kept in I-2 and not carry over to I-3.
Chair Holmes added that I-3 tends to be a larger, heavier industrial area for stand-alone
facilities and would probably not be a target location for an operation like this. He said this
is not to say that an I-3 may be subdivided and still have that classification.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
request by Camp Bow Wow for a zoning ordinance text amendment, site plan amendment
and conditional use permit to allow a dog day/overnight boarding use with an outdoor play
area at 2067 East Center Circle, Building 6.
MOTION by Commissioner Jaffoni, seconded by Commissioner Weir, to amend the
motion that the resolution for a zoning ordinance text amendment will only specify the I-2
General Industrial) zoning district. Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION passed
Commissioner Davis voted nay).
Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. CUSTOM POOLS, INC. (2007022)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Custom Pools, Inc. for a setback variance to allow
installation of an in -ground swimming pool for property located at 13010 Sunset Trail.
Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the April 24, 2007 staff report.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if other properties in the area along the lake had any similar
types of swimming pools or other projects that have been built in the last five years. Senior
Planner Drill said that there are a few existing pools to the north but there have not been a
lot of new projects in this area in the last five years.
Commissioner Neset said the proposal, as constructed, does not exceed the impervious
coverage limitation. He asked if the applicant reduced the pool size to comply with
impervious surface. Senior Planner Drill said that given the area to work with, they did
select a smaller pool size. He said they also removed a planned patio area from what was
initially proposed to stay below 25% coverage.
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Commissioner Davis asked if the pool would have sufficient setback from the property to
the east. Senior Planner Drill said that there would be a six-foot setback in compliance
with City requirements.
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Mike Mulvaney, representing Custom Pools, Inc.
Mr. Mulvaney said that there is a pool to the north of the property and with this pool, there
would be four pools right in that area. He said the property owner has had a pool in the
past and they have kept the size for this pool as small as possible to keep as little intrusion
into this area as they can.
Commissioner Neset stated that he supports this request. He said that it is important to
keep in mind that this lot was established prior to the establishment of shoreland
regulations and that the applicant did their part to limit the impact on such a difficult lot.
Chair Holmes stated that because of the existing lot configuration, the size of the pool and
the one setback variance, he would vote in favor of the request.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Neset, to approve the
request by Custom Pools, Inc. for a setback variance to allow installation of an in -ground
swimming pool for property located at 13010 Sunset Trail. Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes.
MOTION approved unanimously.
8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Holmes, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 9:12 p.m.