HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 04-16-2008Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
April 16, 2008
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Holmes, Commissioners Terry Jaffoni, Erik
Aamoth, Karl Neset, Frank Weir, and James Davis. Commissioner Weir left at 7:09 p.m.
Commissioner Neset arrived at 7:37 p.m.
MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Marie Darling,
Planner Joshua Doty, Associate Planner Kip Berglund, Associate Planner Jared Noelting,
City Engineer Bob Moberg and Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Chair Holmes said Item 5.13. will be moved to Item 7.A. Item 7.A. will be moved to 7.B.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the
amended April 16, 2008 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION
approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE APRIL 2, 2008 PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
April 2, 2008 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
B. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (2007084)
Moved to Item 7.A.
C. STEVE KLEIN (2008004)
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 2
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
request by Steve and Dayna Klein for a variance to maximum impervious surface coverage
to allow for a porch addition for property located at 15620 40th Avenue N. Vote. 5 Ayes.
MOTION approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARING
A. INLAND COMMERCIAL PROPERTY MANAGEMENT, INC. (2007114)
Chair Holmes continued the request by Inland Commercial Property Management, Inc. for
a conditional use permit and site plan amendment for an additional retail building to be
called the "Shops of Plymouth Town Center" for property located at 3550 Vicksburg
Lane N.
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the staff report.
Commissioner Davis asked why the building is being moved ten feet.
Senior Planner Darling said moving the building 10 feet further south would allow
adequate green space and landscaping and still allow for a patio with privacy. She said
there is a grade change on the north side of the building which would be less noticeable by
moving the building and replacing the stairs on the north end with a plaza.
Commissioner Davis asked why parallel parking was added on one side of the private
street running in front of the building.
Senior Planner Darling said this provides overflow parking for the site. She said the
original wider drive aisle did not enhance the site. The applicant altered the island design
and used the nine additional feet of space for parallel parking.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if there are regulations for the size of a plaza or benches.
Senior Planner Darling said there are no size requirements in the ordinance. She said the
design, specialty paving products, sidewalk paving materials, benches and waste containers
would tie into the rest of City Center.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if the building would be connected to the plaza by the new
library with a raised concrete sidewalk.
Senior Planner Darling said the crosswalks would be installed when
36th Avenue is
reconstructed.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 3
Commissioner Jaffoni said the 3 -way stop in the Cub parking lot is congested already. She
asked about fire lanes and if the 3 -way stop is adequate to manage the increased activity in
that area.
Senior Planner Darling said Vicksburg Lane and 36th Avenue N. could be used if a fire
occurred in the new building. She also said the drive aisles have enough room for turning
radius, and the fire hydrants are the proper distance to the buildings. Senior Planner
Darling said the traffic may slow down but will function adequately.
Commissioner Jaffoni said the proposed building along Vicksburg Lane would be basically
brick; she asked if the design is similar to the Applebee's building.
Senior Planner Darling said the applicant proposed elements of the salons and Great Clips
building on the south side of Cub and the Applebee's building would be used to blend the
building into the area.
Commissioner Jaffoni said it makes sense to tie into the plaza, but a lot of new retail is all
starting to look a lot alike - lots of brick, plain brick walls. She said we should strive for
more diversity in retail developments in future designs.
Commissioner Aamoth asked how this proposal fits in with the City Center study.
Senior Planner Darling said we have been working to make sure this site will blend in with
the rest of City Center.
Planning Manager Senness added that this building will connect well with the library to
enhance the pedestrian experience in this area.
Commissioner Davis asked about sidewalks and landscaping on the Vicksburg side of the
building. He asked where dumpsters and trash would be located.
Senior Planner Darling reviewed the sidewalk and proposed plantings which included
plantings for a linear look. Senior Planner Darling said there would be no visible trash or
recycling as a trash room would be recessed on the front (Cub side) of the building.
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Rick Plessner. Mr. Plessner said they have worked
with staff to connect with the library. He said the plaza would be a great benefit. Mr.
Plessner said the brick on the Vicksburg side would be covered by the landscape design.
Mr. Plessner said he has reviewed the conditions in the resolution and accepts all of them.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked what is visible in the glass areas facing Vicksburg.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 4
Mr. Plessner said those areas are intended for food services on both ends of the building
which would have patios and are designed to be an architectural element, not just brick.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if the glass area could be extended so there would be less
brick. She referenced the Mann theater which is all brick.
Mr. Plessner said that had been discussed, and that is why the brick is broken up by a strip
five feet from the top.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
Commissioner Davis commented that this plan looks better than the new building at the
Cub Foods on Rockford Road. He said he appreciates staff ensuring it will be a good plan.
MOTION by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Aamoth, to approve the
request by Inland Commercial Property Management, Inc. for a conditional use permit and
site plan amendment for an additional retail building to be called the "Shops of Plymouth
Town Center" for property located at 3550 Vicksburg Lane N.
Chair Holmes said this space has been empty a long time and this looks like a good plan.
Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
B. MOUNT OLIVET LUTHERAN CHURCH (2008014)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Mount Olivet Lutheran Church for a conditional
use permit amendment to allow a summer school program for property located at 12235
Old Rockford Road.
Associate Planner Noelting gave an overview of the staff report.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked where the early childhood room is located.
Associate Planner Noelting said this room is in the lower level, and added that the main
floor also has a youth room which the summer school would use.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if the programs overlap or if they occur at different times of
the day.
Associate Planner Noelting said they overlap.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 5
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Rozalyn Zuest, Director of the Child Learning
Center. Ms. Zuest said they want to expand in order to provide summer programs for
families who have school age children and younger children.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
MOTION by Commissioner Davis, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the
request by Mount Olivet Lutheran Church for a conditional use permit amendment to allow
a summer school program for property located at 12235 Old Rockford Road. Roll Call
Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (2007084)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by the City of Plymouth for a site plan amendment to
replace the archery range at Plymouth Creek Park.
Associate Planner Berglund gave an overview of the staff report.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if the previous problems were related to accuracy or the fact
that the archery range is not managed or supervised.
Associate Planner Berglund said it is unknown as to how the arrows ended up in the
residential yards. He said the range has been operating for 25 years, and two calls have
been received in that time.
Commissioner Neset asked the distance from the range to residential back yards.
Associate Planner Berglund stated the distance is roughly 300 feet.
Commissioner Neset asked if these could have been errant shots. He asked if people sign
in when they use the range or if there is a monitor.
Associate Planner Berglund said there is a chance a misfire would go into the yards. He
said the range is not monitored.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if there has been consideration to reorienting the range to
point another direction.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 6
Associate Planner Berglund said they have looked at turning the structure to angle more
northeast, or flip 180 degrees southwest. He said the trail would also have to be re-
oriented.
Chair Holmes introduced Eric Blank, Director of Park and Recreation, who said there has
been no attempt to reorient as they want to live within the footprint of the 20 -year old trees
which have protected the visual impact.
Planning Manager Senness asked if the errant arrows are due to the current design or any
other factors.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said it is totally speculative how they got there,
whether errant or intentional. For safety considerations they can't take a risk. Park and
Recreation Director Blank said the best they can do is enclose the range to ensure that
anyone practicing archery would be contained.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked about the cost of the range and grant eligibility.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said there is $5,000 in grant money and the estimate is
20,000 for materials. He said City crews will install the range over a two-month period.
Commissioner Neset asked if archery clubs or youth training would utilize this range.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said not in the past, but now with a more sophisticated
site he anticipates having classes with a trained instructor teaching safety.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if there is an age requirement for use of the range or if kids
can use it on their own.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said there is no age requirement.
Chair Holmes introduced Mark Ravkin, who said he has lived behind the range since 1996.
Mr. Ravkin said he has not complained but has found arrows every single year. A neighbor
found an arrow on his deck. Mr. Ravkin displayed five arrows found in his yard. Mr.
Ravkin said the design of the new range will probably prevent normal responsible shooters,
but it will not prevent people who shoot those arrows. He said he represents a minority of
4 or 5 houses, but believes their safety is important. Mr. Ravkin said Park and Recreation
Director Blank does not consider changing orientation and believes the proposed range
should prevent errant arrows. Mr. Ravkin said he wants a guarantee that no arrows will
show up in his yard after this structure is built.
Chair Holmes introduced John Sullivan, 4015 Minnesota Lane N. Mr. Sullivan said he is
representing Jim Zwack and Karen Schiefelbein, 14805
38th Avenue N. Mr. Sullivan said
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 7
arrows have been found on their roof and deck. He said he appreciates the City's initiative
with safety considerations, but is concerned these were not errant arrows. Mr. Sullivan
said he doesn't think it's possible the arrows were deflected from a tree.
Chair Holmes introduced Daren Thomas, 14435 38th Avenue N. Mr. Thomas said he is
surprised at the cost of this project and is curious to know how much the range is used.
Mr. Thomas said there are significant water drainage problems on the north side of the trail
with ice and standing water. He said if money is to be spent at the park, fix the drainage
problem rather than build this large structure.
Chair Holmes introduced Kathy Osborne, 14905 38th Place N. Ms. Osborne said she is
Vice President of the Park Ridge Homeowners Association. She said in general they do
not oppose the archery range, but are concerned that an errant arrow can cause harm. Ms.
Osborne said they appreciate that the City closed the range when complaints were received.
She asked if Plymouth Creek Park is the best park for the range. Ms. Osborne said you
cannot minimize the possibility of a reckless shooter. Ms. Osborne offered four
suggestions on behalf of the HOA: 1) signage stressing safety and homes in proximity, 2)
educational materials in the Plymouth newsletter and work with local archery clubs, 3)
volunteers to monitor the range, and 4) close the range if arrows are found in residential
yards.
Chair Holmes introduced Erik Otteson, 14795 38th Avenue North. Mr. Otteson said in
2005, nine arrows were found in his yard - one in front of the house, two on the side of
house, and six in the back yard. Mr. Otteson said it is a matter of time before the range
would have to be closed again. He said he has noticed that more than 50 percent of the
shooters pull back and draw up in the air, which is easier than pointing the bow down. Mr.
Otteson said he is a bow hunter and appreciates why somebody would want the range. He
asked if the range could be pointed to the large marsh or the open area to the southwest
rather than 100 yards from the range to his house. He asked if other ranges have houses
behind the impact area. Mr. Otteson asked if arrows come into the yards causing the range
to be closed, would the $20,000 be wasted. Mr. Otteson said he has shot bows and guns all
his life, and would never shoot in the direction of a house. He said he wanted his safety
guaranteed in writing.
Chair Holmes introduced Rebecca Oswald, 14525 381h Avenue N. Ms. Oswald said she
shares Mr. Thomas' concern about the pathway to the range. Ms. Oswald said the trail has
so much use and is very dangerous because of drainage from the soccer fields. She asked
why spend money on the range when the City should be working on the pathway. Ms.
Oswald said this is a very natural area and this structure would not be natural looking.
Chair Holmes asked if there is data supporting the range being so close to homes.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 8
Park and Recreation Director Blank said there is no data, and that the range was there 10
years before development occurred. He said if calls had been received earlier, they would
have responded earlier. Park and Recreation Director Blank stated that no matter what they
do, if there are problems with safety, the City would not hesitate to shut the range down as
safety is the number one concern.
Planning Manager Senness asked about the drainage problems by the trail.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said the City is aware of the problem but there is not
enough space between irrigation systems and sump pumps and the wetland to make
modifications. Raising the trail would cause a dam which would create more problems.
Planning Manager Senness asked about the possibility of changing the orientation of the
structure.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said this could be studied if so directed. He added that
people in Eden Prairie have not experienced arrows leaving their range, but cannot
positively guarantee that.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if it is possible for a beginning archer to be inside the
structure and shoot an arrow outside.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said if an archer is standing behind the red line, he
would be under the roof of the structure. If an archer were in front of the red line, there is a
possibility an arrow could go outside the structure.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if it is possible to eliminate the structure and direct the range
southwest.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said path issues would have to determine if that would
be practical. If the range is not enclosed, a new study would be necessary.
Commissioner Neset asked if there would be a suitable alternative location farther away
from development.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said the only alternative space would be the open space
north of the Wayzata High School, however, parking would be an issue.
Commissioner Neset asked about setbacks from adjacent townhomes for the Plymouth Gun
Club.
Senior Planner Darling said the setback is 25 feet from the gun club and the shooting is in
the opposite direction to an open area.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 9
Commissioner Neset said the proposed range looks great, and but you can't stop a jerk
from shooting at a house. He asked if there is a net available to capture arrows.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said there are nets, but nothing that is fool proof or
better than this proposal.
Commissioner Aamoth asked how many people use this range yearly.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said that is unknown, but the busy season is August
and September before hunting season.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if the City would be liable for an arrow that is errant or
malicious.
Planning Manager Senness said the City Attorney could be consulted to answer that
question.
Mr. Ravkin stressed that the facility is unsupervised, and said you can always find
somebody who will shoot the other direction. He said providing cover for their homes
makes sense.
Mr. Otteson added this was a heavily wooded area separating the range and the houses, but
due to runoff, many trees have died off. This area is not the same as it was in the past.
Commissioner Neset said the proposed archery range looks great and lots of people would
use it in a positive manner. He said the range needs to be relocated because 75 — 100 yards
from homes is not enough. Commissioner Neset said Plymouth should have an archery
range but it needs to be pointed at something other than houses, and he will not support this
proposal.
Commissioner Aamoth concurred with Commissioner Neset. He said someone could still
misuse this archery range and that is disconcerting. Commissioner Aamoth agreed with the
speakers and suggested looking for a different site.
Commissioner Davis concurred with Commissioners Aamoth and Neset and said he is
concerned about people who are not as diligent about following the rules. He said he was
not aware of the number of arrows and thought this was a new problem. Commissioner
Davis said this is a substantial amount of arrows, and some in front yards is very
disconcerting.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 10
Commissioner Jaffoni said she thinks another study for an alternative is needed. She said
she likes the idea of the City of Plymouth having an archery range but will not support this
proposal.
Chair Holmes said he thought realignment was a possibility until he saw the covered soccer
fields across the swamp, and questioned what an arrow would do to the bubble. He said
the number of arrows in neighbors' yards indicate you have to try to hit those yards. Chair
Holmes said to search for a new location as the City has grown up around this range and it
is not the right activity for that location now.
Park and Recreation Director Blank said he has received more communication than ever in
the past, and respectfully requests to withdraw the application at this time.
B. BENTZ/THOMPSON/RIETOW, INC. (2008013)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Bentz/Thompson/Rietow, Inc. for a site plan for a
new 30,300 square foot Hennepin County Plymouth Library located at 15700 36th Avenue
North.
Planner Doty gave an overview of the staff report. Planner Doty said the revised resolution
includes changes to reflect the fact Hennepin County has agreed to take over maintenance
of the green roof, infiltration area and the water quality pond.
Commissioner Davis asked if the green roof is regulated by an ordinance, such as the one
regulating lawns.
Planner Doty said the green roof is a relatively new concept and the City has no specific
design regulations. The roof would have low growing plants in a specialized soil. Planner
Doty said watershed approval would be required and the green roofs would be reviewed at
that time to ensure that they would function to add storm water treatment.
Commissioner Davis asked how this building works architecturally with the new building
in the Cub parking lot as he is concerned about both buildings from the Vicksburg side.
Planner Doty said the architecture of the two buildings is very different.
Planning Manager Senness said staff worked with both applicants to ensure that pedestrian
elements would be complementary. She said the architecture will be individualized as long
as it is within the City Center standards.
Commissioner Davis said he uses the library a lot, and asked if something would be done
to remedy the problem with the holes in the driveway.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 11
Planner Doty said the applicant is aware of the soils condition and this problem.
Commissioner Jaffoni discussed the walkway around the pond, and said if there is a
grading issue preventing the west walkway, what would be achieved by another plaza
which would add more concrete. She questioned how much that sidewalk would be used.
Planner Doty said the plaza or walkway on the north side of the pond would connect to a
future plaza to the north to continue the pedestrian environment.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if there is an access from Vicksburg to the library for
pedestrians. She noted that Vicksburg Lane seems to be turning into a street with backs of
buildings.
Planner Doty said no sidewalk is planned as grade changes make that difficult to achieve a
connection.
Planning Manager Senness said a sidewalk in this location would bring people right into
the parking lot and the book drop off area. She said there is not a lot of area to provide a
safe way to get to the building.
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Ann Voda, from Bentz/Thompson/Rietow, Inc.
Architects, representing the Hennepin County Library system. She said the intention of the
design is to have several fronts and not turn the building back on Vicksburg. The main
entrance is limited to one spot for functionality for a library. Ms. Voda said the
intersection at Vicksburg and 36th Avenue would be captured visually that this is a library -
showing a lot of activity behind glass walls with the teen studio in that corner. Ms. Voda
asked that the condition for the sign easement at that location be deferred until other
opportunities can be examined.
Commissioner Davis asked why the library will not reopen until 2010.
Ms. Voda said construction will start this spring or early summer and the opening date is
early in 2010. She said razing the site and earthwork repair, using a ground source heat
system, boring of deep wells, soil and water mitigation and construction will take that
much time to complete.
Chair Holmes introduced Lois Thompson, representing the Hennepin County Library. Ms.
Thompson said while the library is closed, staff is being reassigned to neighboring
libraries.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if surveys were conducted for citizens to determine what
they are looking for in the library.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 2008
Page 12
Ms. Thompson said there were meetings with Friends of the Libraries prior to the design
starting. She said current likes and dislikes of the library were factored into the plan.
Planning Manager Senness said staff attended these meetings also.
Commissioner Aamoth said the current library is overcrowded, and asked how the new
library would draw in more people.
Ms. Thompson said they are maxed out in space and in the parking lot. She said they
looked at different options, such as expansion, but based on other library use patterns and
given that Plymouth is in the top five busiest libraries, the best option is to build a new
library.
Commissioner Davis said he thinks the library is a great idea and is glad it's finally
happening. He said he can't wait until 2010 to use the new library.
Chair Holmes said the dramatic style of the building will anchor the corner well. He said
he hopes for resolution on the signage as that corner is a critical point for City Center.
Chair Holmes said maybe signage for both entities could be placed on that corner with the
library having top billing.
MOTION by Commissioner Jaffoni, seconded by Commissioner Davis, to approve the
request by Bentz/Thompson/Rietow, Inc. for a site plan for a new 30,300 square foot
Hennepin County Plymouth Library located at 15700 36th Avenue North. Roll Call Vote.
5 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Holmes, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 9:16 p.m.