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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 12-02-2009Approved Minutes City of Plymouth Planning Commission Meeting December 2, 2009 MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Davis, Commissioners Dick Kobussen, Terry Jaffoni, Gordon Petrash, Scott Nelson, Erik Aamoth and Marc Anderson STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Shawn Drill, Senior Planner Marie Darling and Office Support Specialist Laurie Lokken 1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M. 2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 3. PUBLIC FORUM 4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Chair Davis announced that Public Hearings Item 6.13. had been withdrawn. MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Commissioner Kobussen, to approve the amended December 2, 2009 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. 5. CONSENT AGENDA A. APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 18, 2009 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES MOTION by Commissioner Kobussen, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to approve the November 18, 2009 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. B. STATION NINETEEN ARCHITECTS, INC. (2007099) MOTION by Commissioner Kobussen, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to approve the request by Station Nineteen Architects, Inc. for an extension of site plan amendment, conditional use permit amendment and variance approvals for a building addition at Messiah United Methodist Church for property located at 17805 County Road 6. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. Approved Planning Commission Minutes December 2, 2009 Page 2 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS A. PEONY 55 PARTNERS, LLC (2009060) Chair Davis introduced the request by Peony 55 Partners, LLC for a preliminary plat and variance to subdivide the "Peony Promenade" commercial site located in the northwest quadrant of State Highway 55 and Peony Lane North into five lots and two outlots. Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the staff report. He noted the receipt of additional correspondence on December 1, 2009 that has been added to the public record regarding private regulations for freestanding signage that would be recorded with the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions for the development. Commissioner Kobussen asked who would be responsible for paying the park dedication. Senior Planner Drill said that the developer, Peony 55 Partners, would be responsible for the $37,144 payment of park dedication fees. Commissioner Anderson asked for clarification of the ownership for the proposed Outlot A and how the existing circular road connecting to Peony Lane would be maintained. Senior Planner Drill said that the applicant would address those questions. Commissioner Anderson asked if the additional information submitted regarding freestanding signage restrictions would be made part of the conditions of the resolution. Senior Planner Drill said it would not, as they would be private covenants. He said that the declaration would limit any new freestanding signage to 60 square feet in area and 15 feet in height, where the City Ordinance allows each commercial lot to have one freestanding sign of up to 100 square feet in area and 36 feet in height. He said that the applicant is proposing to restrict freestanding signage beyond City regulations because of the concern that there could otherwise be four pylon signs in close proximity along Highway 55. Commissioner Anderson asked what assurances the City would have that the documentation, as submitted, would be recorded. Senior Planner Drill said that it would need to be recorded with the final plat and he confirmed that the City would review the document before it would be recorded with Hennepin County. Chair Davis introduced the applicant, Vince Driessen and the Civil Engineer from Sathre- Berquist, David Pemberton. Mr. Driessen said that their intent would be to control signage design elements for each lot. He said that the declaration of covenants would be simultaneously recorded with the recording of the final plat. Mr. Driessen said that ownership of the proposed outlots would rest within the common ownership or common title for all property owners to share equally and undivided. He said that maintenance of the outlots, which includes the circular roadway, would rest with the long-term owner of proposed Lot 4. He said the declaration of covenants would state that the responsibility Approved Planning Commission Minutes December 2, 2009 Page 3 of maintaining those outlots would be with that owner, who would have the right to charge back proportionately to each tenant for the cost of maintenance. Commissioner Nelson asked if the owner of proposed Lot 4 would bear the responsibility of maintenance if any of the businesses were to vacate the property or go out of business. Mr. Driessen said that each property owner would be required to pay their share, even if the property was vacant. Chair Davis continued the public hearing from the November 18, 2009 Planning Commission meeting and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak on the item. Commissioner Nelson said that the applicant appears to have done a good job in dealing with multiple businesses and signs. He said that he would vote in support of this request. MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded Commissioner Anderson, to approve the request by Peony 55 Partners, LLC for a preliminary plat and variance to subdivide the "Peony Promenade" commercial site located in the northwest quadrant of State Highway 55 and Peony Lane North into five lots and two outlots. Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously. B. RYLAUR, LLC (2009070) (Withdrawn) 7. NEW BUSINESS A. STONE SOURCE (2009058) Chair Davis introduced the request by Stone Source for variances to allow two freestanding signs and additional wall signage for property located at 15821 State Highway 55. Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the staff report. She added that this request has been continued from the November 4, 2009 and November 18, 2009 Planning Commission meetings. Commissioner Petrash asked what size the present sign is for Clarity and Stone Source. Senior Planner Darling said that they are together as one sign and the sign is 34 square feet. She added that Clarity is the other tenant in the building. Commissioner Petrash asked if the signage requirement goes by site and not by tenant. Senior Planner Darling said that was correct and that any industrial or commercial property is allowed to have one freestanding sign and one directional sign per street access. Chair Davis introduced the applicant, Lenny Lome, President of Stone Source. Mr. Lome said that the directional sign located at the 32"d Avenue entrance can only be four square feet. He said that this sign would include Clarity, Stone Source and also Home Source, their retail Approved Planning Commission Minutes December 2, 2009 Page 4 business. He said that the Fire Marshall requires four -inch numbers for the address and for the three business names on the directional sign for a building that you cannot see from 32nd Avenue. Mr. Lome said that when they rented the space in 2004, the signs for Clarity were already on the building and on 32nd Avenue. He said that they just added to the 32nd Avenue sign without going through the City. He said that they had gotten approval from the City for a permit for the marquee in front of the building. He said that after a period of time, they pulled a permit in conjunction with the other owner/tenant for a 120 square foot sign. He said that money would never have been spent if they would have been told that the sign on 32nd Avenue would have to be replaced with a four square foot sign. He said that moving the marquee to 32nd Avenue would be very expensive and that it would look like a sore thumb. He said that it was the City's mistake and even though it is a hardship, it has happened twice and it should have been addressed years ago. Mr. Lome said that in regards to having signage along Vicksburg Lane to explain how to get to the building, people are turning off Highway 55 at a very busy intersection and expecting them to read a directional sign would be unreasonable and very dangerous. He said that it is very difficult to describe to business trade and customers how to get to the building and also because it doesn't look like they are open to the public. He said that even with signage, it is still very difficult to get people to the correct entrance. Mr. Lome said that the signs they want in the front of the building would be significantly less than the 10 percent that would be allowed if the window signage isn't included in the calculation. He said that they have two separate entrances located at either end of the building. He said that there are two separate names for their businesses so to condense and put one business sign in the window would not work. He said that they are a large facility with multiple products. He said that they would like to put large images in the building windows along Highway 55. He said that there had been a major improvement done to the property when they leased the space and that they have expanded and taken almost all of the building. He said that their space at the southern end of the building does not have windows. He said that zoning has changed since they leased the property and they would like to use images as intended based on the code that was there in 2004. He said that if they were allowed to do that, they would have significantly less than 10 percent signage on the building itself. He said that they want to work with the City to make that street corner more attractive with stone and images. He added that they are trying to meet with City Council members as far as an overall plan for the building. Commissioner Petrash asked where the address would be located on the 32nd Avenue sign. Mr. Lome said that they would like to have a new, professional sign made that would list all three businesses and the property address. Commissioner Petrash asked how large the letters are on the sign now. Mr. Lome said that Stone Source letters on this sign are approximately five to six inches tall. Commissioner Nelson asked if other businesses have had to address the size required by the Fire Marshall when there are multiple businesses involved. Senior Planner Darling said yes, every Approved Planning Commission Minutes December 2, 2009 Page 5 building with multiple tenants located off the main access street is required to have the property address in four -inch letters. She said that requirement doesn't reduce the amount of signage for the property. Planning Manager Senness added that the intent of a directional sign is to provide the address and an opportunity to advertise. Commissioner Anderson asked why this building has a Highway 55 address when the only way to access the property is off of 32nd Avenue. Senior Planner Darling said that the address is leftover from the previous era when the property had access from Highway 55. Commissioner Anderson asked if they would consider changing the address. Senior Planner Darling said that they could talk to the Building Official. Planning Manager Senness added that the preference would be for where the access is from. She said that they could have a compelling reason to change the address but that there are expenses involved in making address changes. Commissioner Kobussen asked what the purpose is to use images instead of curtains or screening to block the view of the inside from the outside. Mr. Lome said that the images would not block the light into the building. He said that they would be using the newest technology and new marketing development to make the building more aesthetically pleasing, such as full murals that have been done in Las Vegas. He said that they don't want to cover up their windows but to let people know their place of business. He said they don't want the crates inside to be seen through the windows and that they would not be putting up words, just images. Commissioner Nelson asked if zoning requirements for using images as signage are different for industrial versus commercial. Senior Planner Darling said there is no difference. Commissioner Petrash asked that if the Fire Department requires 4 -inch letters for the property address and it is a small space, what prevails if there are too many letters for that space. Senior Planner Darling said that the Fire Department requirements would prevail for public safety. She added that an address and an arrow with business logos would be an option to fit in four square feet. Commissioner Petrash asked if the three business names are required to be on the sign with the address requirement. Senior Planner Darling said that the business names are not required, just the property address. Mr. Lome said that the building and business names cannot be seen from the 32nd Avenue entrance, only from Highway 55. Chair Davis introduced Cort Naab, employee of Stone Source. Mr. Naab said that there is another building along 32nd Avenue that is a separate property. He said that their property is shaped so that the driveway for their 100,000 square foot building is long enough to not see their building at all. He said that on a regular basis, people pull into the parking lot before their driveway. He said that they have to have a sign that is big enough to see while driving and that a four square foot sign would slow cars down to be read. Commissioner Jaffoni asked if they would be proposing to take the current Clarity and Stone Source sign along 32nd Avenue down and replace it with another sign that would have the property address and all three business names. Mr. Lome said yes. Commissioner Jaffoni asked if they had a drawing of what the proposed sign would look like. Mr. Lome said that they did Approved Planning Commission Minutes December 2, 2009 Page 6 not have one. Commissioner Jaffoni asked how big they would like the sign to be. Mr. Lome said that they would look at 32 square feet. Commissioner Jaffoni asked if Clarity was represented and if they were aware of their replacement signage and variance requests. Mr. Lome said that they are working with the building owner, which is not Clarity. He said that Clarity knows that they are working on this but that they don't know all the details. Chair Davis asked if there were any other conforming signs for Clarity. Senior Planner Darling said that Clarity has a wall sign on the east side of the building over their tenant space and that they also have a portion of the freestanding message sign along Highway 55. Commissioner Aamoth asked how late their business was open in the evenings. Mr. Lome said that they are open until 7:00 p.m. Commissioner Aamoth said that there could be a safety situation when it is dark and trying to look at signs. Mr. Lome said that signage for the next property is the same size so it looks right as you drive past. He said that they don't conform because they don't have a sign in front of their property. He said that they would like to keep the same size but with smaller lettering. Chair Davis asked if the current sign was squared off, if it would be larger than 34 square feet. Senior Planner Darling said that if a variance was approved, they would be limited to 34 square feet regardless. Chair Davis asked if they were to change the proposed resolution, would some other square footage be acceptable. Mr. Lome said that they would like to look at laying out the three business names and property address so that they could be seen and read. Chair Davis requested that they sketch a proposed sign for the Planning Commission to review that would meet the Fire Marshall's requirement for letter size, position of logos or business names and property address, dimension and location. Commissioners Petrash, Aamoth and Nelson concurred. Commissioner Jaffoni added that they should try to meet all the requirements but in the smallest size possible for the Planning Commission to consider granting a variance request. Commissioner Anderson said that he agreed with seeing a proposed sign. Commissioner Anderson said that he did have some issues with the variance request for wall signage. He said that there is no requirement in the City Code that states racking must be screened. He said that putting murals in windows, in his estimation, is advertising and would distract drivers. He said that he thinks that would be inappropriate and that a list of products on buildings would be inappropriate as well. He said that he agreed that business names should be on the front of the building but that he did not agree with what's been laid out. Mr. Lome said that they are allowed to have images on the windows. He said that if they chose to put Home Source and Stone Source signs on the building, they could put images in the Approved Planning Commission Minutes December 2, 2009 Page 7 window bays. He said that they could leave some empty but that would look half done and wouldn't look as well when driving on Highway 55 and trying to see what's there. He said that if you see a large image, it makes it very easy to see. He said that Wendy's has a different image and wording in each window and he doesn't think that's very professional. He said they are proposing only one image and trying to create something that is aesthetically pleasing from the highway. He said that if they do not get a variance, they could do images and piecemeal. He said that when they rented the space, the code allowed that they could put in anything and he doesn't understand why that is being taken away from them. Planning Manager Senness said that in some cases, you do get a nonconforming status when a code is changed. She said that in this situation, the change affected temporary signage, so they would have to conform. She added that the reason why they looked at making a change was because there was a lot of overuse of signage in windows that was unattractive. Mr. Lome said that the idea for the product list on the wall was so it would be seen when driving by. He said that it would be the same manner as driving by Lowes and seeing the lumber yard and greenhouse. Commissioner Petrash asked what if he was building this building and wanted to put a mural on the wall as part of the architectural aesthetics. Senior Planner Darling said that there's a fine line between art and advertisement. Planning Manager Senness said that there is a code against painting signs on building walls. Commissioner Jaffoni asked how many directional signs are allowed on commercial property. Senior Planner Darling said that one directional sign per street access is allowed. Commissioner Jaffoni asked if there is only one street access to the property. Senior Planner Darling said that two streets access the property: 32nd Avenue and Vicksburg Lane, which has two right turn only accesses now that a center median has been installed. Commissioner Jaffoni asked that if there are separate business entrances into the building and that signage along Highway 55 would have one side say Home Source and one side say Stone Source, would it be possible to have a couple directional signs once you drive onto the property directing them to the building entrances. Senior Planner Darling said that they do have some signs pointing out where the business entrances are located. Commissioner Jaffoni said that she did not see why it would be necessary to have the two signs proposed for the Highway 55 signage if separate business entrances could be clearly pointed out in another way that would be conforming. She said that would be one way to reduce the signage to meet the square footage requirement. Mr. Lome said that Home Source is located on the south side of the building and the only way to know that they are located in the building would be to put signage along Highway 55. He said that to access the property from Vicksburg Lane, you have to turn fast because people think you are going to take a right onto Highway 55. He said that delivery trucks exit onto Vicksburg Lane and they want to direct them to the side of the building where the doors are. Approved Planning Commission Minutes December 2, 2009 Page 8 Commissioner Kobussen said that he could see where they would need a sign along 32nd Avenue because the slope of the hill blocks the building. He said that he does not see the uniqueness or hardship for requesting more than 10 percent signage on the north side of the building. Commissioner Anderson said that the issues are about the two variance requests and not about the traffic flow. He said that he would be in favor of the requested 34 square foot sign along 32nd Avenue. Commissioner Jaffoni said that the issue on the separate variance request for wall signage along Highway 55 is largely to do with the graphics covering the windows. She said that she is hearing that other Commissioners are thinking that graphics would not be necessary, may interfere or may be a distraction. She said that she feels that they need to have some identification of the three businesses along Highway 55 but that she doesn't think that graphics need to be a part of that. She said that they could accomplish the same with the east and west walls. She said that she would like to see some ideas brought back about what could be done with the Highway 55 signage and the walls so that a variance wouldn't be necessary. Chair Davis said that he felt the mural could be made smaller and then they would not need to ask for a variance. He said that he would not vote in favor of this variance request. Commissioner Petrash asked if the proposed resolution for approval would meet the conditions that had been discussed. Senior Planner Darling said that resolution actually approves the variance for wall signage and says that they could exceed 10 percent on one side, as long as they don't exceed 10 percent of the remaining three sides together. MOTION by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Nelson, to table the request by Stone Source for variances to allow two freestanding signs and additional wall signage for property located at 15821 State Highway 55 until the January 6, 2010 Planning Commission meeting. The Planning Commission requests that Stone Source submit specific drawings for the freestanding directional sign along 32nd Avenue North and submit a different position on the variance request for wall signage. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. Commissioner Aamoth asked that additional information be provided for the requested 18.6 percent window and wall signage. 8. NEW BUSINESS A. CANCEL THE DECEMBER 16, 2009 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MOTION by Chair Davis to cancel the December 16, 2009 Planning Commission Meeting. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved. 9. ADJOURNMENT Approved Planning Commission Minutes December 2, 2009 Page 9 MOTION by Chair Davis, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 8:35 p.m.