HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 12-02-2009Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
December 2, 2009
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Davis, Commissioners Dick Kobussen, Terry Jaffoni,
Gordon Petrash, Scott Nelson, Erik Aamoth and Marc Anderson
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Shawn Drill, Senior
Planner Marie Darling and Office Support Specialist Laurie Lokken
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Chair Davis announced that Public Hearings Item 6.13. had been withdrawn.
MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Commissioner Kobussen, to approve the
amended December 2, 2009 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION
approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 18, 2009 PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Kobussen, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to approve the
November 18, 2009 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
B. STATION NINETEEN ARCHITECTS, INC. (2007099)
MOTION by Commissioner Kobussen, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to approve the
request by Station Nineteen Architects, Inc. for an extension of site plan amendment, conditional
use permit amendment and variance approvals for a building addition at Messiah United
Methodist Church for property located at 17805 County Road 6. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION
approved.
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6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. PEONY 55 PARTNERS, LLC (2009060)
Chair Davis introduced the request by Peony 55 Partners, LLC for a preliminary plat and
variance to subdivide the "Peony Promenade" commercial site located in the northwest quadrant
of State Highway 55 and Peony Lane North into five lots and two outlots.
Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the staff report. He noted the receipt of additional
correspondence on December 1, 2009 that has been added to the public record regarding private
regulations for freestanding signage that would be recorded with the Declaration of Covenants
and Restrictions for the development.
Commissioner Kobussen asked who would be responsible for paying the park dedication. Senior
Planner Drill said that the developer, Peony 55 Partners, would be responsible for the $37,144
payment of park dedication fees.
Commissioner Anderson asked for clarification of the ownership for the proposed Outlot A and
how the existing circular road connecting to Peony Lane would be maintained. Senior Planner
Drill said that the applicant would address those questions.
Commissioner Anderson asked if the additional information submitted regarding freestanding
signage restrictions would be made part of the conditions of the resolution. Senior Planner Drill
said it would not, as they would be private covenants. He said that the declaration would limit
any new freestanding signage to 60 square feet in area and 15 feet in height, where the City
Ordinance allows each commercial lot to have one freestanding sign of up to 100 square feet in
area and 36 feet in height. He said that the applicant is proposing to restrict freestanding signage
beyond City regulations because of the concern that there could otherwise be four pylon signs in
close proximity along Highway 55.
Commissioner Anderson asked what assurances the City would have that the documentation, as
submitted, would be recorded. Senior Planner Drill said that it would need to be recorded with
the final plat and he confirmed that the City would review the document before it would be
recorded with Hennepin County.
Chair Davis introduced the applicant, Vince Driessen and the Civil Engineer from Sathre-
Berquist, David Pemberton. Mr. Driessen said that their intent would be to control signage
design elements for each lot. He said that the declaration of covenants would be simultaneously
recorded with the recording of the final plat.
Mr. Driessen said that ownership of the proposed outlots would rest within the common
ownership or common title for all property owners to share equally and undivided. He said that
maintenance of the outlots, which includes the circular roadway, would rest with the long-term
owner of proposed Lot 4. He said the declaration of covenants would state that the responsibility
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of maintaining those outlots would be with that owner, who would have the right to charge back
proportionately to each tenant for the cost of maintenance.
Commissioner Nelson asked if the owner of proposed Lot 4 would bear the responsibility of
maintenance if any of the businesses were to vacate the property or go out of business. Mr.
Driessen said that each property owner would be required to pay their share, even if the property
was vacant.
Chair Davis continued the public hearing from the November 18, 2009 Planning Commission
meeting and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak on the item.
Commissioner Nelson said that the applicant appears to have done a good job in dealing with
multiple businesses and signs. He said that he would vote in support of this request.
MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded Commissioner Anderson, to approve the request
by Peony 55 Partners, LLC for a preliminary plat and variance to subdivide the "Peony
Promenade" commercial site located in the northwest quadrant of State Highway 55 and Peony
Lane North into five lots and two outlots. Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved
unanimously.
B. RYLAUR, LLC (2009070) (Withdrawn)
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. STONE SOURCE (2009058)
Chair Davis introduced the request by Stone Source for variances to allow two freestanding signs
and additional wall signage for property located at 15821 State Highway 55.
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the staff report. She added that this request has been
continued from the November 4, 2009 and November 18, 2009 Planning Commission meetings.
Commissioner Petrash asked what size the present sign is for Clarity and Stone Source. Senior
Planner Darling said that they are together as one sign and the sign is 34 square feet. She added
that Clarity is the other tenant in the building.
Commissioner Petrash asked if the signage requirement goes by site and not by tenant. Senior
Planner Darling said that was correct and that any industrial or commercial property is allowed
to have one freestanding sign and one directional sign per street access.
Chair Davis introduced the applicant, Lenny Lome, President of Stone Source. Mr. Lome said
that the directional sign located at the 32"d
Avenue entrance can only be four square feet. He
said that this sign would include Clarity, Stone Source and also Home Source, their retail
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business. He said that the Fire Marshall requires four -inch numbers for the address and for the
three business names on the directional sign for a building that you cannot see from 32nd Avenue.
Mr. Lome said that when they rented the space in 2004, the signs for Clarity were already on the
building and on 32nd Avenue. He said that they just added to the 32nd Avenue sign without going
through the City. He said that they had gotten approval from the City for a permit for the
marquee in front of the building. He said that after a period of time, they pulled a permit in
conjunction with the other owner/tenant for a 120 square foot sign. He said that money would
never have been spent if they would have been told that the sign on 32nd Avenue would have to
be replaced with a four square foot sign. He said that moving the marquee to 32nd Avenue would
be very expensive and that it would look like a sore thumb. He said that it was the City's
mistake and even though it is a hardship, it has happened twice and it should have been
addressed years ago.
Mr. Lome said that in regards to having signage along Vicksburg Lane to explain how to get to
the building, people are turning off Highway 55 at a very busy intersection and expecting them
to read a directional sign would be unreasonable and very dangerous. He said that it is very
difficult to describe to business trade and customers how to get to the building and also because
it doesn't look like they are open to the public. He said that even with signage, it is still very
difficult to get people to the correct entrance.
Mr. Lome said that the signs they want in the front of the building would be significantly less
than the 10 percent that would be allowed if the window signage isn't included in the calculation.
He said that they have two separate entrances located at either end of the building. He said that
there are two separate names for their businesses so to condense and put one business sign in the
window would not work. He said that they are a large facility with multiple products. He said
that they would like to put large images in the building windows along Highway 55. He said that
there had been a major improvement done to the property when they leased the space and that
they have expanded and taken almost all of the building. He said that their space at the southern
end of the building does not have windows. He said that zoning has changed since they leased
the property and they would like to use images as intended based on the code that was there in
2004. He said that if they were allowed to do that, they would have significantly less than 10
percent signage on the building itself. He said that they want to work with the City to make that
street corner more attractive with stone and images. He added that they are trying to meet with
City Council members as far as an overall plan for the building.
Commissioner Petrash asked where the address would be located on the 32nd Avenue sign. Mr.
Lome said that they would like to have a new, professional sign made that would list all three
businesses and the property address. Commissioner Petrash asked how large the letters are on
the sign now. Mr. Lome said that Stone Source letters on this sign are approximately five to six
inches tall.
Commissioner Nelson asked if other businesses have had to address the size required by the Fire
Marshall when there are multiple businesses involved. Senior Planner Darling said yes, every
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building with multiple tenants located off the main access street is required to have the property
address in four -inch letters. She said that requirement doesn't reduce the amount of signage for
the property. Planning Manager Senness added that the intent of a directional sign is to provide
the address and an opportunity to advertise.
Commissioner Anderson asked why this building has a Highway 55 address when the only way
to access the property is off of 32nd Avenue. Senior Planner Darling said that the address is
leftover from the previous era when the property had access from Highway 55. Commissioner
Anderson asked if they would consider changing the address. Senior Planner Darling said that
they could talk to the Building Official. Planning Manager Senness added that the preference
would be for where the access is from. She said that they could have a compelling reason to
change the address but that there are expenses involved in making address changes.
Commissioner Kobussen asked what the purpose is to use images instead of curtains or screening
to block the view of the inside from the outside. Mr. Lome said that the images would not block
the light into the building. He said that they would be using the newest technology and new
marketing development to make the building more aesthetically pleasing, such as full murals that
have been done in Las Vegas. He said that they don't want to cover up their windows but to let
people know their place of business. He said they don't want the crates inside to be seen through
the windows and that they would not be putting up words, just images.
Commissioner Nelson asked if zoning requirements for using images as signage are different for
industrial versus commercial. Senior Planner Darling said there is no difference.
Commissioner Petrash asked that if the Fire Department requires 4 -inch letters for the property
address and it is a small space, what prevails if there are too many letters for that space. Senior
Planner Darling said that the Fire Department requirements would prevail for public safety. She
added that an address and an arrow with business logos would be an option to fit in four square
feet. Commissioner Petrash asked if the three business names are required to be on the sign with
the address requirement. Senior Planner Darling said that the business names are not required,
just the property address. Mr. Lome said that the building and business names cannot be seen
from the 32nd Avenue entrance, only from Highway 55.
Chair Davis introduced Cort Naab, employee of Stone Source. Mr. Naab said that there is
another building along 32nd Avenue that is a separate property. He said that their property is
shaped so that the driveway for their 100,000 square foot building is long enough to not see their
building at all. He said that on a regular basis, people pull into the parking lot before their
driveway. He said that they have to have a sign that is big enough to see while driving and that a
four square foot sign would slow cars down to be read.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if they would be proposing to take the current Clarity and Stone
Source sign along 32nd Avenue down and replace it with another sign that would have the
property address and all three business names. Mr. Lome said yes. Commissioner Jaffoni asked
if they had a drawing of what the proposed sign would look like. Mr. Lome said that they did
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not have one. Commissioner Jaffoni asked how big they would like the sign to be. Mr. Lome
said that they would look at 32 square feet.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if Clarity was represented and if they were aware of their
replacement signage and variance requests. Mr. Lome said that they are working with the
building owner, which is not Clarity. He said that Clarity knows that they are working on this
but that they don't know all the details.
Chair Davis asked if there were any other conforming signs for Clarity. Senior Planner Darling
said that Clarity has a wall sign on the east side of the building over their tenant space and that
they also have a portion of the freestanding message sign along Highway 55.
Commissioner Aamoth asked how late their business was open in the evenings. Mr. Lome said
that they are open until 7:00 p.m. Commissioner Aamoth said that there could be a safety
situation when it is dark and trying to look at signs. Mr. Lome said that signage for the next
property is the same size so it looks right as you drive past. He said that they don't conform
because they don't have a sign in front of their property. He said that they would like to keep the
same size but with smaller lettering.
Chair Davis asked if the current sign was squared off, if it would be larger than 34 square feet.
Senior Planner Darling said that if a variance was approved, they would be limited to 34 square
feet regardless. Chair Davis asked if they were to change the proposed resolution, would some
other square footage be acceptable. Mr. Lome said that they would like to look at laying out the
three business names and property address so that they could be seen and read.
Chair Davis requested that they sketch a proposed sign for the Planning Commission to review
that would meet the Fire Marshall's requirement for letter size, position of logos or business
names and property address, dimension and location. Commissioners Petrash, Aamoth and
Nelson concurred.
Commissioner Jaffoni added that they should try to meet all the requirements but in the smallest
size possible for the Planning Commission to consider granting a variance request.
Commissioner Anderson said that he agreed with seeing a proposed sign.
Commissioner Anderson said that he did have some issues with the variance request for wall
signage. He said that there is no requirement in the City Code that states racking must be
screened. He said that putting murals in windows, in his estimation, is advertising and would
distract drivers. He said that he thinks that would be inappropriate and that a list of products on
buildings would be inappropriate as well. He said that he agreed that business names should be
on the front of the building but that he did not agree with what's been laid out.
Mr. Lome said that they are allowed to have images on the windows. He said that if they chose
to put Home Source and Stone Source signs on the building, they could put images in the
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window bays. He said that they could leave some empty but that would look half done and
wouldn't look as well when driving on Highway 55 and trying to see what's there. He said that
if you see a large image, it makes it very easy to see. He said that Wendy's has a different image
and wording in each window and he doesn't think that's very professional. He said they are
proposing only one image and trying to create something that is aesthetically pleasing from the
highway. He said that if they do not get a variance, they could do images and piecemeal. He
said that when they rented the space, the code allowed that they could put in anything and he
doesn't understand why that is being taken away from them.
Planning Manager Senness said that in some cases, you do get a nonconforming status when a
code is changed. She said that in this situation, the change affected temporary signage, so they
would have to conform. She added that the reason why they looked at making a change was
because there was a lot of overuse of signage in windows that was unattractive.
Mr. Lome said that the idea for the product list on the wall was so it would be seen when driving
by. He said that it would be the same manner as driving by Lowes and seeing the lumber yard
and greenhouse.
Commissioner Petrash asked what if he was building this building and wanted to put a mural on
the wall as part of the architectural aesthetics. Senior Planner Darling said that there's a fine line
between art and advertisement. Planning Manager Senness said that there is a code against
painting signs on building walls.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked how many directional signs are allowed on commercial property.
Senior Planner Darling said that one directional sign per street access is allowed. Commissioner
Jaffoni asked if there is only one street access to the property. Senior Planner Darling said that
two streets access the property: 32nd Avenue and Vicksburg Lane, which has two right turn only
accesses now that a center median has been installed.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked that if there are separate business entrances into the building and
that signage along Highway 55 would have one side say Home Source and one side say Stone
Source, would it be possible to have a couple directional signs once you drive onto the property
directing them to the building entrances. Senior Planner Darling said that they do have some
signs pointing out where the business entrances are located. Commissioner Jaffoni said that she
did not see why it would be necessary to have the two signs proposed for the Highway 55
signage if separate business entrances could be clearly pointed out in another way that would be
conforming. She said that would be one way to reduce the signage to meet the square footage
requirement.
Mr. Lome said that Home Source is located on the south side of the building and the only way to
know that they are located in the building would be to put signage along Highway 55. He said
that to access the property from Vicksburg Lane, you have to turn fast because people think you
are going to take a right onto Highway 55. He said that delivery trucks exit onto Vicksburg Lane
and they want to direct them to the side of the building where the doors are.
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Commissioner Kobussen said that he could see where they would need a sign along 32nd Avenue
because the slope of the hill blocks the building. He said that he does not see the uniqueness or
hardship for requesting more than 10 percent signage on the north side of the building.
Commissioner Anderson said that the issues are about the two variance requests and not about
the traffic flow. He said that he would be in favor of the requested 34 square foot sign along 32nd
Avenue.
Commissioner Jaffoni said that the issue on the separate variance request for wall signage along
Highway 55 is largely to do with the graphics covering the windows. She said that she is hearing
that other Commissioners are thinking that graphics would not be necessary, may interfere or
may be a distraction. She said that she feels that they need to have some identification of the
three businesses along Highway 55 but that she doesn't think that graphics need to be a part of
that. She said that they could accomplish the same with the east and west walls. She said that
she would like to see some ideas brought back about what could be done with the Highway 55
signage and the walls so that a variance wouldn't be necessary.
Chair Davis said that he felt the mural could be made smaller and then they would not need to
ask for a variance. He said that he would not vote in favor of this variance request.
Commissioner Petrash asked if the proposed resolution for approval would meet the conditions
that had been discussed. Senior Planner Darling said that resolution actually approves the
variance for wall signage and says that they could exceed 10 percent on one side, as long as they
don't exceed 10 percent of the remaining three sides together.
MOTION by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Nelson, to table the request
by Stone Source for variances to allow two freestanding signs and additional wall signage for
property located at 15821 State Highway 55 until the January 6, 2010 Planning Commission
meeting. The Planning Commission requests that Stone Source submit specific drawings for the
freestanding directional sign along
32nd Avenue North and submit a different position on the
variance request for wall signage. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
Commissioner Aamoth asked that additional information be provided for the requested 18.6
percent window and wall signage.
8. NEW BUSINESS
A. CANCEL THE DECEMBER 16, 2009 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MOTION by Chair Davis to cancel the December 16, 2009 Planning Commission Meeting.
Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
9. ADJOURNMENT
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MOTION by Chair Davis, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 8:35 p.m.