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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 09-16-2009Approved Minutes City of Plymouth Planning Commission Meeting September 16, 2009 MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Davis, Commissioners Scott Nelson, Gordon Petrash, Erik Aamoth, Terry Jaffoni and Marc Anderson MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioner Dick Kobussen STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Marie Darling, Senior Planner Josh Doty, City Engineer Bob Moberg, Park and Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom 1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M. 2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 3. PUBLIC FORUM 4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to approve the September 16, 2009 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved. 5. CONSENT AGENDA A. APPROVAL OF THE SEPTEMBER 2, 2009 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES MOTION by Commissioner Petrash, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the September 2, 2009 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 5 Ayes. Chair Davis abstained. MOTION approved. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS A. THREE RIVERS PARK DISTRICT (2009049) Chair Davis introduced the request by the Three Rivers Park District for a conditional use permit for special lighting at the Eagle Lake Regional Park miniature golf course located at 11000 County Road 10. Senior Planner Doty gave an overview of the staff report. Commissioner Anderson asked about curfew times associated with this lighting. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 2 Senior Planner Doty said the Zoning Ordinance requires that the lights must extinguish at midnight or the close of business. He said the applicant would meet that requirement as the golf course closes at 10:30. Commissioner Jaffoni asked if this is typical lighting for mini golf courses. Senior Planner Doty said he did not research lighting for other mini golf courses, but added the City of Plymouth has a unique lighting ordinance, which is not applicable to other cities. He said this lighting would be on the low side. Commissioner Jaffoni asked about existing light on the golf course. Senior Planner Doty said many existing lights are taller and unshielded in that area. He said the par three course is lit on the east side of the mini golf course. Chair Davis introduced Stephen Shurson, landscape architect representing Three Rivers Park District. Mr. Shurson said the staff report is complete and accurate. He said that Bonestroo, their lighting engineer, made the recommendation to increase the wattage to an adequate amount. He said they want to be able to see the ball and golf while being fairly conservative in the amount of light. Chair Davis asked if the course is open. Mr. Shurson said they are laying the carpet and will be landscaping in the next couple of weeks. He said they anticipate opening the mini golf course in October. Chair Davis opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak on the item. MOTION by Commissioner Petrash, seconded by Commissioner Anderson, to approve the request by the Three Rivers Park District for a conditional use permit for special lighting at the Eagle Lake Regional Park miniature golf course located at 11000 County Road 10. Chair Davis said he will be voting in favor and is looking forward to miniature golf. Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously. B. CENTEX (2009046) Chair Davis introduced the request by Centex for land use guide plan amendments, rezoning, preliminary plat and PUD general plan for "Elm Creek Highlands," 70 single family homes to be located at the northeast corner of Schmidt Lake Road and Peony Lane. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 3 Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the staff report. She said a letter from Chris and Anita Sperry, 17735 48th Pl. N., has been added to the record. Commissioner Anderson asked if a traffic study had been done for this site. Senior Planner Darling said that no traffic study was completed for this development, but the traffic impacts were reviewed with the recently updated Comprehensive Plan. City Engineer Moberg referenced Comprehensive Plan documents showing traffic analysis zones, which were evaluated as part of updating the transportation chapter. He said 2030 projections for the zone that includes the subject site show population increasing from 948 (2005 figures) to 2,717 and households increasing from 368 (2005 figures) to 1,168. He said the modeling represented a full build out condition. City Engineer Moberg said from staff perspective, a subdivision of 70 homes is less than 10% of what is anticipated. He said the average daily traffic on Peony Lane was 2,050 trips per day in 2005, with a projection of 16,200 trips per day in 2030. He reviewed traffic counts for Years 2005, 2007 and 2030. City Engineer Moberg said the extension of Peony Lane to Lawndale Lane is expected to occur by 2030, with 10,400 trips per day projected on that segment. Commissioner Anderson asked if any study was done on peak a.m. capacity. City Engineer Moberg said no, but the traffic counts for 2005, 2007, 2009 were done while school was in session to get accurate counts. Commissioner Anderson asked if Schmidt Lake Road and Peony Lane which have been rebuilt are designed to handle this capacity in future, or would additional improvements be necessary. City Engineer Moberg affirmed that the design and construction were intended to handle the development proposed. Commissioner Anderson asked if the grading would be phased in with the final plat of 9 lots, or would the entire site be graded. Senior Planner Darling said the grading would be for the 9 homes, with remaining grading phased in later. Commissioner Petrash said there are no sidewalks on the preliminary drawing, and asked if they would be added in the future. Senior Planner Darling stated the applicant is required to put in 5 -foot sidewalks on one side of all local streets and they are shown on the plans. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 4 Chair Davis said a conservation zone in the middle of proposed development would handle some runoff from Conor Meadows and Schmidt Lake Road. He asked where that runoff would be directed. Senior Planner Darling showed the ravine and said runoff is day -lighted above ground and then carried by a pipe into the buffer area. She said there are volume control basins in that area. Chair Davis asked if there is enough capacity for all that water. City Engineer Moberg pointed out there would be some drainage from Conor Meadows, which also has storm water ponding. He added this is overflow coming through the ravine, and there is a condition in the approving resolution that there cannot be an increase in rate or volume of runoff into the ravine from the site itself. Chair Davis asked if the 10" trunk water main would be removed and would there be issues for water service in this area if this development is not built. Senior Planner Darling said the 12 -inch water main proposed to be removed would not impact this area because it is intended to serve properties to the northeast. City Engineer Moberg said rather than installing it in an undesirable location from a maintenance and physical standpoint, it would be substituted with a future line of larger size further to the north. Chair Davis asked if roadwork would be necessary for Schmidt Lake Road or Peony Lane. Senior Planner Darling said the only necessary improvement is a southbound left -turn lane on Peony Lane in order to create a bypass lane. This improvement is covered in the approving resolution. Commissioner Anderson noted the flow out of Conor Meadows north to the swale would be piped over and into the wetland. He said if clogged, the water would back up at Lots 16 and 17. He said the situation would be complicated with the side yard setbacks and asked if an increase in setbacks for Lots 16 and 17 would be needed. Senior Planner Darling said any pipe underground requires additional easements. She said the PUD proposes five-foot setbacks, but ten feet would be required on both sides of the pipe for any necessary city maintenance. Commissioner Anderson asked if that is also true for the emergency overflow which is located a few lots down. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 5 City Engineer Moberg said the applicant needs to demonstrate that the lowest floor on any home must be at least 18" above the emergency overflow. He added that one house does not meet that requirement and that needs to be addressed. Commissioner Nelson asked about square footage and location of two low quality wetlands being removed and replaced with a medium quality wetland. Senior Planner Darling stated two low quality wetlands would be filled and replaced on a 2:1 basis. She said there would be some credit given for buffering and public value credits. Chair Davis introduced the applicant, Mary McDiaras, 12701 Whitewater Drive, Minnetonka MN, Division President for Pulte Homes and Centex, which recently merged. Mr. McDiaras said Centex and Pulte have built many homes in Plymouth in the past, and they are excited about being back here. Mr. McDiaras thanked staff for help with the site plan process, and said he concurs with the staff report and conditions in their entirety. Chair Davis opened the public hearing. Chair Davis introduced Rich Cole, 4875 Merrimac La. N. Mr. Cole referenced the Comprehensive Plan statement: "Do not force premature development or lifestyle changes of residents." He said 5% of the homes in Conor Meadows are up for sale and have been on the market for quite some time. Mr. Cole said the proposed development would compete with existing residences in Conor Meadows that are for sale. He said the schools, which have been redrawing boundaries every year, would be impacted with the influx of a new neighborhood. Mr. Cole asked how long the City has known about this PUD. Chair Davis introduced Theresa Bevilacqua, 17540 48th Pl. N., who said she opposes the proposed development because it would create a housing surplus and excess within a two-mile radius, not including Maple Grove developments. Ms. Bevilacqua said there are 53 single family homes for sale, and there are differing price points but she does not see the need for another 70 homes. Ms. Bevilacqua said she lives in Conor Meadows and the price point is less than what she paid four years ago. Ms. Bevilacqua said there is overcrowding of schools and Kimberly Lane has a 22/1 student -teacher ratio, where the state average is 16/1 and the national average is 15/1. Ms. Bevilacqua said the environment and aesthetics would be affected. The heavily wooded area houses bald eagles that are protected, and the 80-100 year old trees cannot be replaced in her lifetime. Ms. Bevilacqua said she strongly supports the Northwest Greenway project. Ms. Bevilacqua asked about the access from Schmidt Lake Road to the optional loop spur. Chair Davis introduced Natele Jones, 17530 48th Pl. N. Ms. Jones said she is opposed to the proposed development which is very premature and a major adjustment to the Comprehensive Plan. Ms. Jones reviewed the numbers of families and children attending the Wayzata School District without including southwest Maple Grove developments, which are also in this school district. She said the PTO for Kimberly Lane would like to have 720 students and there are 760 Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 6 students this school year. Ms. Jones said this would greatly affect our quality of life, and Plymouth can't be the best place to live if schools are overcrowded and we can't sell our homes. Chair Davis introduced Lizzie Rude, 17420 49th Ave. N. Ms. Rude said the developer is cutting down too many trees that go to waste. She said there are too many other homes to be filled before you make a new neighborhood. She said she can make a difference even if she is young. Chair Davis introduced Mandi Rezabek, 17420 49th Ave. N. Ms. Rezabek said builders must not care about wildlife that lives there. She said in the spring or summer there are a lot of babies and they are protective. Chair Davis introduced Bryce Mead, 4760 Merrimac Ct., who said he agreed with earlier comments. He said he is a mortgage banker and stated there were 100 closed sales in Plymouth, with 153 new listings. In 2008 there were four more sales and fewer listings. Mr. Mead said the housing crisis is not over, and urged the Planning Commission to table this for a few more years. Chair Davis introduced Bill Sigel, 17765 48th Pl. N. who concurred with all earlier comments. Mr. Sigel said it is important to consider the quality of homes Centex builds. Mr. Sigel submitted a list of customer complaints and said there was a class action lawsuit against Centex in 2001. He said Plymouth takes pride in being the #1 place to live, and he is strongly opposed to Centex being the builder. Chair Davis introduced Nawal Pandey, 17400 49th Ave N. Mr. Pandey said he is opposed to the proposed development because of the traffic increase on Schmidt Lake Road and Peony Lane. Mr. Pandey said Peony Lane should be increased to two lanes because the single lane is risky. He said 50% of the traffic in the morning is from the high school buses and cars. Mr. Pandey said there is already a surplus of houses in the neighborhood. Mr. Pandey said the Wayzata High School has 3,400 to 3,500 students which exceed the capacity of 3,000. He said another neighborhood will erode the system more. Chair Davis introduced Tov Rezabek, 17420 49th Ave. N., who said he is speaking for his wife, who is a teacher. Mr. Rezabek said Plymouth was voted #1 last year, but we seem to be chipping away at the features mentioned repeatedly, such as parks, green space and the great school system. There will be 140-160 new kids resulting from the proposed development and crowded schools will affect quality of the schools. Mr. Rezabek questioned if we want quantity of people or quality of life. Mr. Rezabek said he is an ex -president of the Conor Meadows' HOA. He said city delays in repairing the ravine, which affects 12 homes in the Conor Meadows neighborhood, has gone from $280,000 to fix four years ago, to $380,000 in 2011. Mr. Rezabek said he was the first president of any HOA to be proactive and clean out what the developer had left, and they spent over $60,000 cleaning the NURP ponds which the City had let go. He said the HOA transplanted 23 trees which fell into the ponds due to inaccurate planning for the plantings. Mr. Rezabek said the Comprehensive Plan studied a 20 -year moratorium which was reduced to ten Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 7 years, which is significant. Mr. Rezabek said his back yard is affected by the ravine; silt from both sides of the ravine have clogged the drain, made a pond, and there is a drainage ditch big enough for a kid to fit through, Mr. Rezabek said there are 1,000 ponds in Plymouth and Plymouth is not able to keep up with them. The ponds overflow drains across the street, (from Conor Meadows multi -family homes and Peony Lane). He said the watersheds were not represented at this public hearing, and it is a huge problem with no money to fix it. Mr. Rezabek said further development will continue to fill in more silt, increasing the problem for the City to clean out. Mr. Rezabek asked about a right-hand turn lane, as the kids love the downhill slope of Troy Lane. He said Public Safety said kids go 70 mph on Peony Lane, and this is a significant safety and traffic issue. Mr. Rezabek said he wants to see this proposal tabled for further studies and discussion. Mr. Rezabek added Plymouth Creek Elementary School is overcrowding at the same rate as Kimberly Lane. Mr. Rezabek said the school district has changed boundaries five times in the last nine years. Chair Davis closed the public hearing. Senior Planner Darling discussed school impact and said the City prepares a Comprehensive Plan which the school districts review. The districts use the land use plan to determine future enrollment projections. She said the Wayzata district recently completed a detailed demographic study that did assume development of this parcel and other parcels in the northwest Plymouth area. The school district proposed that children from this development would go to Kimberly Lane, and the school district prefers whole neighborhoods stay together within school enrollment zones. She added that the Wayzata School District owns land north of C.R. 47 in anticipation for a future elementary school. Planning Manager Senness stated that the Wayzata High School capacity is 3,450 students. Commissioner Nelson said he has experience working in schools as a counselor, and state and other funding sources are a factor in the number of kids going to a certain school. Planning Manager Senness clarified that there was never a 20 -year moratorium as the state only allows up to an 18 -month moratorium. Planning Manager Senness said the 2000 Comprehensive Plan showed this part of the city to be developed after 2020, but state law requires all cities in the metro area to update their comprehensive plans every 10 years, and that process culminated in the plan adopted last April. This area was indicated to develop in 2008-2010 in the current Comprehensive Plan. Senior Planner Darling said staff has been working with Centex since April or May, 2009 on this application. She said another developer was interested and discussed development six to seven months prior, and in 2004 a developer submitted a sketch proposal, but did not proceed because development was considered premature at that time. Senior Planner Darling said the City anticipated this would be one of the first sites for proposed development in the northwest area. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 8 Planning Manager Senness said two notices were sent for this development application. The first notice was to residents within 750 feet when a complete application was received, and a second notice was sent ten days prior to the hearing. Senior Planner Darling said when a development application is consistent with city requirements, staff must review it based on its own merits separate from other developments in the area. Plymouth has taken a conservative approach to development by opening small portions of land at a time. Senior Planner Darling said the lot supply in the Wayzata School District is decreasing. Senior Planner Darling responded to the concern over the quality of homes built by Centex, and said the City is always concerned when there is a poor construction report. She said the construction process would be monitored through the building permit process. Senior Planner Darling stated staff reviews an application on its merits, and the person who has control of the property is entitled to submit an application. Senior Planner Darling discussed tree removal and said 49% tree removal would occur. She said they are allowed to cut 50% without penalty. The applicant is required to plant two new trees on every front yard (140 total), which is a code change not in effect when Conor Meadows was built. Planning Manager Senness asked about the wildlife and Northwest Greenway. Senior Planner Darling said the premise of the Northwest Greenway is to provide both a trail and natural area, and corridor for people and animals. She said the City is saving its resources to acquire primary loops but is requesting that the applicant give a 40 -foot easement along the east property line. When the properties to the east develop, the City would request a matching amount of land to allow another trail from Schmidt Lake Road north to the greenway. Planning Manager Senness asked about traffic associated with the high school and safety issues with changes to Peony Lane. City Engineer Moberg said significant rain events can result in a portion of Peony Lane at Elm Creek being underwater. From a staff perspective, it would make more sense to do a more comprehensive change on Peony Lane, connecting with Lawndale Lane as a single project rather than on a piece -meal basis. He said a left-hand turn lane on southbound Peony Lane would improve safety at the entrance to the development. He said traffic safety might be dangerous with a new entrance without the southbound left hand turning movement. No turn lanes are being added on Schmidt Lake Road which would be consistent with other accesses along Schmidt Lake Road. City Engineer Moberg said staff recognizes there is incredible peak school) traffic in the a.m. and p.m. He stated the 70 units in this proposed development would generate 7-10 trips per household, and the 500-700 trips per day would likely not be noticeable. Planning Manager Senness asked for clarification about the drainage issue and pond maintenance. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 9 City Engineer Moberg said when Schmidt Lake Road was constructed in the 1990's there were two drainage crossings. In 2008, because of erosion issues, the City undertook a project to intercept one of the pipes on the subject property and piped to the wetland going north. He said staff recognizes that the ravine upstream of the pipe has experienced significant erosion problem Mr. Rezabek said has been deferred a couple times. City Engineer Moberg clarified that staff deferred the project not because the City is not supportive, but the parties (single family home owners and townhome owners) were unable to reach agreement. City Engineer Moberg concurred with Mr. Rezabek that the HOA is responsible for maintenance of the ponds. He said when Conor Meadows was approved, that was the City's policy. However, the City Council repealed that policy in 2003 and the City now maintains storm water ponds. City Engineer Moberg explained that the pond must be in reasonable condition and a petition must be submitted by the HOA before the City would take over that maintenance. City Engineer Moberg stated that staff has not received such petition from the Conor Meadows HOA. Mr. Rezabek stated the HOA has never been approached with a plan which they denied. He said an adjacent multi -family property owns a portion of the third pond. He said the HOA disagreed to allowing the multi -family having control over their half of the pond. Mr. Rezabek said they liked the City's plan with the pipe line drainage to another pond. Mr. Rezabek said the HOA cleaned the three NURP ponds. He said one pond that drains is a wetland, fully overgrown with cattails, has crawled past buffer zones, and is approaching deck footings. Planning Manager Senness addressed the request to table for further discussion and study. She said under state statute, the City must review an application within a 120 -day time frame. She said it cannot be tabled indefinitely, and the city must act by December 18, 2009 or the application would be automatically approved. Senior Planner Darling discussed property values. She said this issue appears with every new development. Senior Planner Darling said it is no longer a seller's market. However, whether or not this development gets approved may not change the amount of time a house is on the market, and time on the market may not decrease for some time. Senior Planner Darling added it is a very rare circumstance for a proposed development to negatively impact home values of another. Planning Manager Senness added that the Planning Commission and City Council look at requirements in the zoning ordinance and subdivision regulations — not the number of homes on the market. Commissioner Aamoth asked which issues are relevant to our review. Planning Manager Senness said school impact and number of homes on the market are not considered. She said City requirements for tree loss would be considered, and added staff is pleased to see three areas are being preserved with conservation easements. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 10 Commissioner Aamoth asked about the proposed development being detrimental to the Conor Meadows' residents. Planning Manager Senness said the concern about premature development in the Comprehensive Plan related to the 5 -acre lots remaining in northwest Plymouth that are guided for very low density would remain without sewer. The idea was to make sure these areas were not encroached upon prematurely, and that is why additional land use classifications were established for northwest Plymouth. Commissioner Petrash asked how we would consider special conditions for wildlife unique to the area. He asked about removal of old growth trees and how to credit for new growth trees to make sure it is balanced right. Senior Planner Darling said tree preservation requires preservation of 50% of all significant tree inches on site, not the number of trees. Senior Planner Darling said she has searched the Natural Heritage data base for wildlife in the past. She said there is a Blanding's turtle and an osprey that nests in the Wayzata High School lights, but said she has not heard of bald eagles on the subject site. Senior Planner Darling agreed there are valuable species, and that is the purpose of the Northwest Greenway space. Commissioner Jaffoni discussed tree quality in Plymouth and said very few areas have high quality trees. She asked what category these trees are. Senior Planner Darling said there are no identified quality natural communities on this site. She said in comparison, the trees north of the high school on City open space show up as a higher quality natural environment, which is why it was targeted for acquisition by the City in the previous open space referendum. Commissioner Jaffoni asked if there was new information in regard to wetland delineation that a change in boundary is being considered. She asked if it could be developed without removing all those trees if the guiding went back to P -I. Senior Planner Darling explained that the current land use designation splits the site in half, with wetland on the east side. She said when the flood plain and wetland delineations were done it was clearer how much land was developable, and the best layout for the Northwest Greenway trail would be to circle the wetland. Commissioner Jaffoni said she is concerned about aesthetics because the proposal compresses some setbacks closer to the road and closer together, similar to a zero lot line. She said she is concerned what it will look like. Senior Planner Darling compared standards to the Conor Meadows neighborhood which has the same land use designation and similar home sizes. The lots in Conor Meadows are 5,000 to Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 11 14,422 square feet in area with an average lot width of 54 feet; the proposed lots would be slightly wider and would be 7,633 square feet to over an acre in area. She said there would be 35% lot coverage in the Elm Creek development compared to 40% in Conor Meadows. Commissioner Anderson said the Natural Heritage data base did not specify bald eagles in this area, and inquired about requiring additional studies on the environmental issue. Senior Planner Darling said she could look for further information on the bald eagle. She said for the Blanding's turtle, surmountable curbs could be used. Commissioner Anderson said he appreciated the tree removal rate of 49%, and referenced Ms. Rude's question about trees going to waste. He asked if these trees would become wood chips or logs and go to a mill for furniture and fence posts. Chair Davis introduced Ian Peterson, VP Pulte Homes, who said he has been in contact with the clearing company who evaluated tree stock on the property, and some trees may be sent to a mill. He said chips may be used on site as an erosion control. Mr. Peterson said another option is using 18" mulch or chips to prevent frost on the building pads. Ms. Bevilacqua said Centex is the same builder who constructed the ponds at Conor Meadows. Ms. Bevilacqua said the same developer is proposing two new ponds for this new development and cautioned that this be taken seriously as the Conor Meadows pond hasn't been fixed for the last ten years. Senior Planner Darling said the areas Ms. Bevilacqua referenced are wetlands proposed to be filled. An existing pond along Peony Lane would be expanded to treat the drainage from this development. She said a condition in the resolution requires that lower impact erosion control methods be installed in the ravines. City Engineer Moberg said after witnessing situations in Conor Meadows and other areas which experienced the need for similar restoration projects, staff is taking a much closer look than the City did historically and in this case, for example, is working with the developer to make certain no increase in water is being diverted into the ravines. He said permanent erosion control facilities that would blend into the environment are preferable to a lot of structural work. City Engineer Moberg said conservation easements were not used historically. Commissioner Petrash asked if there is an issue with the builders in Plymouth. Senior Planner Darling responded that it is an issue with every city whenever a developer or builder doesn't deliver quite as proposed. She said that the new requirements with building inspections, tree preservation, water quality standards and erosion control inspections are a direct response to problems in the past. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 12 Commissioner Jaffoni said she thinks we will continue to see similar issues raised and she understands the concerns as we are in a depressed housing market. Commissioner Jaffoni said she is encouraged that we have builders like Centex and Gonyea who are starting projects and said this may mean things are turning around. She said she understands we are at risk for excess inventory but at some point this is going to correct and obviously other people are thinking the same way. Commissioner Jaffoni asked if further studies could be done on environmental impact to identify any endangered species or special concerns to make reasonable accommodations. Planning Manager Senness said staff will contact the DNR prior to the City Council meeting to see if additional information is available. Commissioner Petrash asked if the applicant has done any investigation on the wildlife issue. Mr. Peterson said an extensive wetland delineation study and soil testing were conducted with many parties involved, and if anyone had seen anything it would have been brought to their attention as they are sensitive to endangered or protective species. He added that any contractor who does work for them also notifies them if anything such as Native American artifacts are located. Commissioner Aamoth asked when Peony Lane would be extended. City Engineer Moberg stated Peony Lane would be improved by 2030, but is not in the current five-year Capital Improvements Program. Commissioner Petrash asked if it is an advantage or disadvantage to have the access directly across from another access on to Schmidt Lake Road. City Engineer Moberg said two other options could be considered, but they would be too close to the Peony Lane and Schmidt Lake Road intersection. He said from a safety standpoint, a true four -legged intersection as proposed is best. Commissioner Anderson said the current traffic situation in the a.m. seems like an unacceptable situation even though the proposed development would not impact it. He asked if anything can be done with the proposed development such as signalization of Schmidt Lake Road and Merrimac Lane. City Engineer Moberg said that could be considered, however, cautioned about introducing another traffic signal as it could create more congestion. Chair Davis said that a signal to solve a problem for one hour a day and is a pain the other 23 hours of the day seems very inefficient. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 13 City Engineer Moberg said the long term plan is to connect Peony Lane to Lawndale Lane, and he anticipates 54th Avenue will provide a connection between Peony and C.R. 101 as another route to disburse some traffic; he said the school is landlocked right now. Commissioner Anderson said the guide plan change makes sense, there is proper delineation of the wetland, and the amount of developable area is less than was shown before. He said the water plan makes sense and is being solved without running expensive pipe later on. Commissioner Anderson said the PUD trade off with preservation of trees in the ravine for smaller lots makes sense. He said he agreed the City's adopted phasing plan for this area has portions adjacent to utilities and was planned for development which satisfies the prematurity question. Commissioner Anderson discussed market conditions and said he is a proponent for a free market system. Supply and demand rule and if a developer wants to build something, that's the natural course of things. Commissioner Anderson said he feels for the folks regarding the schools, but the school district seems to be on top of it and he is giving this development proposal a green light. Commissioner Petrash concurred with Commissioner Anderson. He said the Planning Commission may not have the ability to change specific pieces of a proposal but does have the responsibility to look at the whole as it impacts the community. Commissioner Petrash said amendments may have to be added to some of these requests, and then reviewed point by point. He said the Planning Commission's ability to do anything is limited, but we have to approve it. Commissioner Petrash said not everything has to be rational for each piece if the overall doesn't make rational sense to us or the community. Commissioner Anderson said he hears Commissioner Petrash's concerns but we do have certain limitations based on what is presented. He said the participation is on record and the discussion is important. He said the Planning Commission is limited and he is not sure what could be done to amend. Commissioner Petrash said to not approve it. Chair Davis stated the Planning Commission would need sound reasons for not approving the proposal, and any issues raised would be forwarded to the City Council for their decision. Planning Manager Senness clarified that both Planning Commission and City Council can choose to say no if findings of fact support their decision which must relate to what the City can regulate. Chair Davis introduced Michael Stoffel, 17705 48th Pl. N. who said essential issues such as schools and home values have not been covered, there is no discrimination on trees, Centex can have a crappy past, wildlife can move north and we don't care. Mr. Stoffel said sewer issues are addressed. He said to not talk about these issues is failure and said change the rules. Mr. Stoffel said he appreciates Commissioner Petrash's comments. Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 14 Mr. Sigel said what he is hearing is ridiculous and staff should have come here with the answers about the school, wildlife and traffic. He said if you are going to pass it because you don't have the answers then turn it down and force the developer to come back with the answers. Chair Davis introduced Saladi Naidu, 17740 49th Ave N. who said the Planning Commission has a moral responsibility knowing the practical, even though these rules are not required. Commissioner Petrash said even though it seems this proposal should be approved, it is incumbent to let the City Council know the issues. He said he will vote no, and that this is something the City Council should seriously consider as the Commission's scope is limited. Commissioner Aamoth said he is sensitive to Commissioner Petrash's point but our jurisdiction is limited. He said the Planning Commissioners are volunteers, and decisions based on our subjective feelings create a situation not based on findings of fact. He said he is concerned if we were to make arbitrary decisions as unelected people. Commissioner Aamoth said that is why he agrees it seems that we cannot do more than we can do, and apologized if residents did not understand the process. Commissioner Aamoth said this is a process, and this does not mean we think this is the best thing. Commissioner Aamoth said we respect the fact that we as citizens have to be careful of our reach and our scope, and said he does not see anything in this proposal that would make him deny it. He said the City Council will hear the concerns and Commissioner Aamoth said he would be voting in favor. Commissioner Anderson said he feels informed in terms of what is presented. He said from his experience he has never seen a land use decision made based on a school situation. Schools and their school boards take care of school issues. Commissioner Anderson said he has never seen a city turn down a development proposal as it relates to market conditions. He said we do not have ordinances or laws behind us to say certain market conditions justify denying a proposal. Commissioner Anderson said he has seen situations where a developer had a valid rezoning application denied, and the city would get sued, and many times the city loses. He said there are laws for environmental issues, but an EIS is not required for this proposal. Commissioner Anderson said he feels he has the necessary facts to make a decision in this case. Commissioner Jaffoni said she concurs with Commissioner Anderson. She said neither the city nor Planning Commission has the ability to not approve a proposal because of market conditions as that would be a socialistic approach. She said our responsibility is to listen to information from all sources and make it part of the public record. Commissioner Jaffoni said she would approve based on findings of fact, but also wants to ensure environmental impacts and the traffic concerns are addressed. She said these issues will be played out again with future projects for northwest Plymouth. She said the Planning Commission is not being insensitive to what is being said, and the City Council will consider it. Chair Davis introduced Deepika Iyngar, 4905 Merrimac Lane N. Ms. Iyngar said it looks like there is a consensus regardless of what you hear. She said her yard is being encroached by the wetland and asked if there could be a requirement to fix the Conor Meadows neighborhood Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 15 before the Elm Creek development is built. Ms. Iyngar also asked if Peony Lane could be widened in the next five years City Engineer Moberg said the City can look into the wetland problem, but cautioned there are limits for excavation of a wetland. He said the Peony Lane project could be considered as the CIP is done annually, but he noted there are many transportation needs in the city. Commissioner Anderson said the Conor Meadows' residents have some issues and need to push on the City to get these addressed. He said the City Council has a public forum to hear problems and issues, but to tie Conor Meadows to what happens to another piece of property is not appropriate. MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the request by Centex for land use guide plan amendments, rezoning, preliminary plat and PUD general plan for `Elm Creek Highlands," 70 single family homes to be located at the northeast corner of Schmidt Lake Road and Peony Lane. Motion for a friendly amendment by Commissioner Jaffoni, seconded by Commissioner Anderson, to add a condition that the developer conduct an investigation on the presence of endangered or protected species and make reasonable accommodations. Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved. Commissioner Petrash voting nay. C. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (2009045) Chair Davis introduced the request by the City of Plymouth for a zoning ordinance text amendment and changes to the light zone map to bring the City's lighting regulations into conformance with the 2030 Comprehensive Plan. Senior Planner Doty gave an overview of the staff report. Chair Davis asked why we are bothering with the LZ -1 zone if there are only 6 properties in it and the City owns them all. He asked if other properties have to have something different because they are next to a LZ -1 zones. Senior Planner Doty said both LZ -1 and LZ -2 zones recognize open space, with LZ -2 having a lower threshold for light. He said even with city property that is defined as open space we do not want to see light levels that are consistent with residential areas. Senior Planner Doty added there are other open spaces throughout the city with the same designation. Chair Davis opened and closed the public hearing. MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the request by the City of Plymouth for a zoning ordinance text amendment and changes to the light zone Approved Planning Commission Minutes September 16, 2009 Page 16 map to bring the City's lighting regulations into conformance with the 2030 Comprehensive Plan. Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously. 7. NEW BUSINESS 8. ADJOURNMENT MOTION by Chair Davis, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 10:20 p.m.