HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 07-22-2009Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
July 22, 2009
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Davis, Commissioners Dick Kobussen, Terry Jaffoni,
Gordon Petrash, Scott Nelson, Erik Aamoth and Marc Anderson
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Shawn Drill, City
Engineer Bob Moberg, Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Kobussen, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the
July 22, 2009 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE JULY 8, 2009 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Commissioner Anderson, to approve the
July 8, 2009 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. GONYEA COMPANY (2009025)
Chair Davis introduced the request by Gonyea Company for rezoning from FRD to RSF-3 and
preliminary plat for "Spring Meadows," a 60 -unit single family detached home development
located at 5505 Vicksburg Lane.
Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the staff report. Senior Planner Drill said a letter from
John and Sue O'Donnell, who own two properties to the west of the proposed development, was
received in support of the proposed development.
Commissioner Anderson said there is undeveloped property to the north, west and south and
Vicksburg Lane reconstruction has not begun. He asked if stubbing streets could be considered
premature as it causes a 60 -lot cul-de-sac at this point.
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Senior Planner Drill said this would not be considered premature because it is already in the
urban service area. Senior Planner Drill said they are dedicating a right-of-way for the future
expansion of Vicksburg Lane and water would be extended from south of the CP railroad to the
Wood Crest development. Senior Planner Drill added that there would be an emergency access
to Vicksburg Lane and the developer has approached the owner to the south to get easements, if
necessary, for the roadway access.
Planning Manager Senness cited the previously approved Taryn Hills and Seven Greens
developments which were both affected by the future widening of Vicksburg Lane.
Commissioner Anderson asked if the proposed turn lanes would be temporary or needed for the
future.
Senior Planner Drill stated that new turn lanes would be replaced when Vicksburg Lane is
reconstructed.
Commissioner Anderson asked why planning commissioners did not receive the Wetland
Replacement Plan.
Senior Planner Drill explained that the Wetland Replacement Plan is presented to the City
Council for approval. He said approval of the preliminary plat is contingent upon approval of
the wetland replacement plan.
Commissioner Anderson discussed the storm sewer system with the post development runoff rate
not to exceed pre -development rate. He asked about the post development volume of water run
off compared to now.
City Engineer Moberg said drainage calculations meeting City approval must be submitted
before approval of a final plat. He said the City does have requirements in place regarding
volume.
Commissioner Anderson asked if the developer would be phasing this project.
Senior Planner Drill said it would be done all at once.
Commissioner Anderson referenced Condition 20.£ requiring the sanitary sewer depth to serve
adjacent properties, and asked how the developer would know that without a development plan
on those properties.
City Engineer Moberg said the 2030 Sanitary Sewer System plan was adopted in the
Comprehensive Plan. He identified the sewer shed area needing to be served by the single sewer
line crossing Vicksburg Lane. City Engineer Moberg said it is unknown when the Hampton
Hills property will be developed, but, from a staff perspective, we want to limit crossings of
Vicksburg Lane, as it will be a major roadway. He said the sewer line will cross Vicksburg to
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the Hampton Hills Golf Course, then flow north by gravity to Taryn Hills and ultimately to
Maple Grove. City Engineer Moberg also stated the applicant had previously prepared a sketch
plan of the adjacent properties and the sketch would be adequate to determine required sewer
depths.
Commissioner Anderson referenced Conditions 20. g. and h. encouraging infiltration and
alternate landscape materials. He asked how that would be encouraged when there is no
standard.
City Engineer Moberg said those conditions were written in this fashion because on site soil
conditions indicate there is limited opportunity to do infiltration, and the City does not want
language mandating conditions which could create a hardship.
Commissioner Anderson asked if construction may cause blockage to the currently flowing drain
tile.
City Engineer Moberg stated the drain tile line exists to serve an agricultural purpose, and
because the property is converting from agricultural to residential, the need would cease.
Commissioner Anderson said the City of Plymouth does not like lift stations and a private
situation is proposed which would give the homeowner's association the responsibility to
maintain. He questioned why this project is not considered premature with a risky lift station
situation.
City Engineer Moberg said that staff recognizes there can be issues with lift stations. He said the
applicant is proposing to install a temporary lift station that will be removed when gravity sewer
is extended through the Hampton Hills site. He also stated that City staff does not have an
interest in maintaining the temporary lift station, and added that this is a similar situation to the
Wood Crest development.
Commissioner Anderson said the home size of $500-800,000 would be great for the tax base,
and asked if there is any guarantee on the price of the homes.
Planning Manager Senness stated that the price of homes is not a consideration that the Planning
Commission or City Council look at.
Commissioner Anderson said wetlands are not to be removed for home building, and questioned
what is going on with wetland rules.
City Engineer Moberg said the Wetland Conservation Act prefers avoidance of wetlands. Any
time alteration of a wetland occurs, there is a sequencing process the applicant must follow for
avoiding or mitigating wetland impacts. City Engineer Moberg said the existing wetlands are
classified as low quality wetlands.
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Commissioner Anderson asked if the trees removed would be salvaged for lumber rather than
ground up.
Senior Planner Drill said the City does not have a requirement for tree disposal.
Commissioner Anderson asked what would be required in terms of the homeowner's association
expertise to handle the responsibility for the lift station and the retention area.
City Engineer Moberg said the homeowner's association would be required to enter into a
maintenance agreement with the City acknowledging their responsibility to maintain the
retention area; the homeowner's association may have to hire a service to ensure the retention
basin is functioning properly. Regarding the lift station, the developer would be responsible for
notifying the homeowner's association of its responsibility to maintain the lift station.
Commissioner Anderson asked if any situations have fallen back on the City because a
homeowner's association could not handle the responsibility.
City Engineer Moberg responded there were none that he was aware of.
Commissioner Anderson asked about the 300 -foot shoreland line, based on the new ordinance.
Senior Planner Drill said four lots are in the shoreland district and would be subject to the 25%
impervious surface regulation.
Commissioner Anderson discussed tree removal and asked who determines the quality rating of
trees to be removed.
Commissioner Nelson said the Vicksburg Lane reconstruction is planned for four lanes in 2013
or depending on funding and traffic studies. He asked if there would be a cap on future
development if the road does not have adequate capacity to handle additional traffic.
City Engineer Moberg said the 2030 Comprehensive Plan includes a traffic forecast of 14-15,000
vehicles per day on Vicksburg Lane in this area. The additional traffic from this proposed
development is not expected to create congestion on Vicksburg Lane. He said the long term plan
is to have a bridge over the railroad tracks.
Commissioner Nelson asked if there are mechanisms the City can utilize if the eventual
development and traffic in this area became a concern.
City Engineer Moberg said the inclusion of Vicksburg Lane improvements in the City's CIP is
the best mechanism to address future traffic volumes in the area.
Commissioner Kobussen asked how long the temporary lift station would be necessary. He
asked if Wood Crest is responsible for their lift station.
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Senior Planner Drill said the sewer would be brought in to go south and then north to Taryn Hills
when the Hampton Hills site develops.
City Engineer Moberg clarified the Wood Crest system pumps into Taryn Hills. He said the
applicant proposes a temporary lift station that would not tie into the Wood Crest lift station, but
would tie into the force main from Wood Crest and then go into Taryn Hills.
Commissioner Kobussen questioned what would be done to preserve the ash trees remaining on
site from the emerald ash borer.
Commissioner Kobussen asked if retaining walls were on any easements or higher than 4 feet.
Senior Planner Drill said the one necessary retaining wall is located in the northern area and is
outside the drainage and utility easement.
Commissioner Kobussen asked if Weston Lane ties into the emergency road and if there would
be a turnaround for normal traffic.
Senior Planner Drill said the road would be for emergency vehicles only. Senior Planner Drill
said plans have not been finalized regarding a turnaround alternative to a temporary cul-de-sac.
He said there has been discussion with the property owner to the south.
Commissioner Kobussen asked if a sidewalk is needed if there is a path.
Senior Planner Drill said a city trail is on the south side and a concrete sidewalk on the north
side, and this would be a normal situation where a city trail exists.
Commissioner Kobussen asked who would be responsible for the water main going in this
proposed development.
City Engineer Moberg said the installation of the trunk water main in Vicksburg Lane would be
done as part of this project. He said the developer would install the water main and then could
get reimbursed by the City for oversizing the pipe.
Commissioner Petrash asked at what point in length a cul-de-sac is required to have a sidewalk.
Senior Planner Drill said there is no minimum distance. He said eight years ago subdivision
regulations did require a sidewalk on one side of the local street.
Commissioner Petrash said this looks to be a very successful and a great development for the
City and the builder. He asked if there are any restrictions on the time frame for completion.
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City Engineer Moberg said time restrictions in the Development Contract pertain only to the
installation of public infrastructure, not to how quickly development has to build out.
Commissioner Petrash said the Wood Crest development has been referenced as a precedent. He
questioned if one development is approved with variances and restrictions, then those restrictions
get moved to another development with similar restrictions, and asked if this is developing a
back door code.
Senior Planner Drill clarified that no variances or exceptions were required with this proposal.
Planning Manager Senness said in reference to the lift station, precedent is not an issue when you
run out of additional capacity. She added that this is an interim situation.
Commissioner Petrash asked if the Taylor site would need a temporary lift station.
City Engineer Moberg said the gravity sewer installed in Wood Crest would not be capable of
serving the Taylor site because it was designed to go a different direction.
Senior Planner Drill clarified there is a waiver process the City could approve for sidewalks for
short cul-de-sacs. He said this would be a final plat detail.
Chair Davis introduced the applicant Dave Gonyea, 6102 Olson Memorial Hwy. Mr. Gonyea
stated they do not want to be putting in lift stations. Mr. Gonyea said within 24 months they
anticipate bringing the sewer to the site. He said you have to have road access to Hampton Hills,
but it is unlikely that someone would buy 400 acres and develop all at once. His intent is to get
rid of the lift station as soon as possible. Mr. Gonyea said they would be phasing all 59 lots for
sale with 3-4 builders over a 3 -year period of time. He said the Wood Crest homes range from
550,00 to $600,000 with square feet of 2,200 to 3,000. Mr. Gonyea said the proposed
development would be approximately 10% above those numbers.
Chair Davis asked about tree quality, and the rating of very poor,
Mr. Gonyea said the tree survey details trees. He said he would take the City Forester's
recommendations for chipping or burning if they determine there is presence of emerald ash
borer. Mr. Gonyea said there would be a two -tree minimum and anticipates reforesting with five
trees which will be above tree requirement.
Senior Planner Drill asked how removed trees would be recycled.
Mr. Gonyea said lumber with value, such as oak, would be salvaged, and smaller diameter trees
would get cut up for fire wood or wood chips.
Commissioner Nelson asked how the lift station responsibility would be shared when there are
only a few homeowners in the homeowner's association.
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Mr. Gonyea said they would stay in control or until someone competent could take over. He said
homeowner's association typically assume responsibility at 75% build out. Mr. Gonyea said
they would be responsible for rain gardens and infiltration basins until turned over, at the City's
direction. He added that the lift station would not be turned over entirely to the homeowner's
association.
Commissioner Jaffoni said the Taylor parcel is 30 acres plus the two 5 -acre parcels. She asked if
one lot is not developed because of the access road, the number of lots would be 46, and 47 are
required.
Senior Planner Drill said this was a matter of doing the math differently and rounding numbers.
Mr. Gonyea said the Taylor property is heavily wooded and to achieve the required density two
homes per acre would impact less trees and keep more natural features.
Commissioner Jaffoni discussed the southbound right turn lane, access to Vicksburg Lane and if
there are plans for stop signs or signals. She asked if there is a need with 590 additional trips per
day.
City Engineer Moberg stated the development of this parcel would not warrant stop signs or a
signal on Vicksburg Lane. He said he anticipates development of the Hampton Hills property
would warrant a signal. City Engineer Moberg said the location of the proposed intersection fits
well with the existing profile and the future profile for the railroad bridge.
Commissioner Anderson said the designed lift station and force main would tie into another
force main. He asked who would be responsible for the check valves.
Mr. Gonyea said the developer would be responsible.
City Engineer Moberg added that a condition in approving this preliminary plat is for the
developer to determine which homeowner's association would be responsible for the force main
once the two lines come together.
Planning Manager Senness said that condition is in the resolution for this proposal.
Commissioner Anderson asked who would be responsible when the check valve is stuck or
damaged.
Mr. Gonyea said the homeowner's association would be responsible, not the City.
Commissioner Anderson said the Wetland Conservation Act seeks to avoid wetlands, but you are
developing right through the wetland. He asked how you justify that.
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Mr. Gonyea said the wetland is low quality, and it is a man-made ditch. He said the watershed
people do not think it is a viable wetland and it is not salvageable. He said the total impact is
3,000 square feet.
City Engineer Moberg said any wetland reconstruction is replaced at a 2:1 ratio under the
Wetland Conservation Act, which can result in a better quality wetland.
Commissioner Anderson asked if the plan is to make it a better quality wetland.
Mr. Gonyea said the wetland would be considerably larger and higher quality.
Commissioner Anderson asked who will pay for the traffic signal when future development
occurs.
City Engineer Moberg said the Hampton Hills site developer will be required to submit an
Environmental Worksheet Assessment and traffic study. He said the amount of traffic generated
from that site, with 500-550 residential units, indicates a need for a traffic signal at their access
point. Payment for the traffic signal will be negotiated through the platting process and
development contract.
Commissioner Anderson asked about the drainage and runoff rate. He asked how the rate would
remain the same but not the quantity.
Bob Molstad, the developer's engineer, said the developer would be required to submit
stormwater calculations that address rate and volume, filtration, additional storage and retention.
He said quantity would be addressed, but there is no set rule. He said the rate has to be
controlled and the infiltration areas will take care of some of that volume.
Commissioner Kobussen asked about risk of flooding to the three homes built on the existing
wetland.
Mr. Gonyea explained that the overflow will run down to the west and then over to the creek.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked how the developer would time the construction with different
builders and asked about plans for controlling erosion.
Mr. Gonyea said the building permit and the watershed permit would require an erosion control
plan.
City Engineer Moberg added that engineering staff inspect these sites weekly as grading activity
occurs. He said the applicant is required to prepare a storm water pollution prevention plan for
the site and identify all measures they use to prevent erosion on site. He said escrows and cash
deposits for erosion control are in place with the Development Contract and with individual
building permits.
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July 22, 2009
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Chair Davis opened the public hearing.
Chair Davis introduced Tami Janousek, 5630 Dunkirk Lane N.. She said she and her husband,
and the O'Donnell's support the project. Ms. Janousek asked if the sewer is of sufficient depth
to service her property.
Chair Davis introduced Mike Janousek, 5630 Dunkirk Lane N. He asked why the proposed
development is in this location, which is a lower area. He asked why not start north on
Vicksburg Lane.
Chair Davis closed the public hearing.
City Engineer Moberg reviewed the sewer sub -district boundary and said the Janousek's
property lies to the west of it. Their property would require an extension of the gravity sewer
from the Elm Creek interceptor. He added that any sanitary sewer from the proposed
development would not be in a situation to be providing service to the Janousek's in the future.
Commissioner Anderson said he firmly believes some conditions need to be added to the
resolution. He said this proposal is a viable plan, and being low in elevation is the right place to
start. Commissioner Anderson said the temporary lift station is unfortunate, and he said he
hopes there is enough teeth in the condition for the engineering and maintenance issues, and he
said he feels these are solvable. Commissioner Anderson said he will support this plan.
MOTION by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the
request by Gonyea Company for rezoning from FRD to RSF-3 and preliminary plat for "Spring
Meadows," a 60 -unit single family detached home development located at 5505 Vicksburg Lane.
MOTION for a friendly amendment by Commissioner Anderson, to request that 1) the
applicant supply evidence of an easement along the southerly property boundary for the
emergency access road, 2) the homeowner's association show an expertise for maintaining the
lift station with such costs included in the homeowner's association budget and communicated to
future homeowners, and 3) the responsibility for the temporary lift station be turned over to the
homeowner's association only upon City approval.
Commissioner Anderson said the homeowner's association is getting a responsibility not typical
and they should know about added costs and what they are getting into. Commissioner
Anderson said the homeowner's association is typically turned over at 75% build out, and at that
point the homeowner's association may not be ready to assume the responsibility.
Commissioner Anderson said until that time the developer should maintain responsibility for the
temporary lift station. Commissioner Anderson said the City will turn over the lift station
knowing it will be set up correctly and the homeowner's association can handle that
responsibility.
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Commissioner Petrash asked what criteria the City would use to determine when the
homeowner's association is ready to take over and does the City want to do that.
City Engineer Moberg said attempting to make criteria for this situation should be discussed with
the city attorney. City Engineer Moberg said he would review the declarations and covenants in
place for the Wood Crest development.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if the Wood Crest homeowner's association knows there is going to
be an increase in their costs and additional wear and tear on their pump.
City Engineer Moberg said he is not certain there would be an increase in the cost of
maintenance for the system in Wood Crest. He said he has asked the applicant for information
on how the two systems will operate hydraulically to assure they won't interfere with each
other's operations.
Planning Manager Senness said staff will confer with the City Attorney regarding how much
direction the City can give for the homeowner's association budget.
Commissioner Petrash asked why this is different from Wood Crest.
City Engineer Moberg explained that this development will piggy -back on the Wood Crest
system. Wood Crest was a stand alone, single lift station, single force main for a single
subdivision; that will now be compromised and needs to be worked out.
Chair Davis asked what the implication would be if there were no lift station.
City Engineer Moberg said there would be no development, or the applicant would need to
provide gravity service to this site which means running the sanitary sewer through Hampton
Hills - which means the developer is taking responsibility for property they have no control over.
Commission Aamoth asked the applicant's comments on the conditions.
Mr. Gonyea said this proposal is similar to Wood Crest and he is not looking to burden
homeowners. He said if it went beyond five years he would agree to the language offered by
Commissioner Anderson.
Commissioner Anderson asked the developer if they would maintain the lift station for five
years.
Mr. Gonyea said hopefully the temporary lift station would be abandoned in three to five years.
He agreed to the language for beyond five years.
Commissioner Anderson reiterated that the developer is comfortable with not attempting to turn
it over to homeowners for a five-year period.
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Commissioner Petrash asked how homeowners in Wood Crest are informed of their
responsibilities.
Mr. Gonyea said the homeowner association documents are provided before closing.
Motion to amend by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Nelson, to add
Condition 20.x. that, if necessary and if needed, evidence of an easement for emergency access
off Vicksburg Lane be verified. Vote 7 ayes. Motion to amend approved.
Motion to amend by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Nelson, to add
Condition 20.y. that the applicant not turn over maintenance of the lift station for at least five
years from the date the first home in the subdivision is occupied.
Commissioner Petrash said it is imperative the city attorney review the language as to how we
present ourselves in these recommendations in regard to liability and responsibility for the City,
i.e. builder bankruptcy. Planning Manager Senness said this will be reviewed by the City
Attorney.
Vote. 7 ayes. Motion to amend approved.
Motion to amend by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to add
Condition 20.z. that the homeowner's association show sufficient expertise for maintenance at
the end of the five-year period to take care of the lift station and the cost of such be included in
the homeowner association's budget and communicated to future homeowners.
Commissioner Kobussen asked how homeowners will show their expertise. Commissioner
Petrash concurred and said he expected the expertise would be hired.
Chair Davis said he cannot support that as he belongs to a homeowner's association. He said his
homeowner's association doesn't do anything until something happens. Chair Davis said he is
uncomfortable putting a requirement to show positive steps for something that hasn't occurred.
He said he could support a document showing they are aware of their responsibility.
Commissioner Petrash agreed with Chair Davis' statement. He said he knows there will be
conditions in the future, but where do we draw lines.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if there would be a middle ground to capture what Commissioner
Anderson is trying to do.
Planning Manager Senness said informing homeowners is one thing and requiring the
homeowner's association to demonstrate capability to maintain the lift station another.
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Commissioner Jaffoni stated that the developer will inform all prospective homeowners that the
developer would be in charge of the lift station for five years and the homeowner's association
would determine appropriate maintenance thereafter.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if the city would be involved in determining when and how the
transition will go in the five year plan.
Planning Manager Senness responded no. Chair Davis said once the lift station is operational
and inspected, it is not the city's ongoing concern.
City Engineer Moberg said one condition is that an emergency phone number must be provided
for a viable entity to do repair and maintain the lift station, and this is not the City. He said the
issue of turning over responsibility of the lift station after fire years becomes a legal one rather
than a planning or engineering question. He said the City Attorney would be consulted for input.
Commissioner Anderson said most lift stations are maintained by the City. He said he sees City
workers at the lift station in his neighborhood two times a week, not once every six months.
They have back up generators available if the power goes out. They are ready to meet that
responsibility. If a lift station fails, sewer backs up into homes and if you think water back up is
something people get irate about, try sewage backup. Commissioner Anderson said we have a
sewer system going into a house, then the sewer system goes into the street, then into the box,
then back into the City's responsibility. He said that middle piece is a piece of machinery and
they break. Commissioner Anderson emphasized that you have to have a system that is being
maintained or you will have problems and finger pointing as to who is responsible.
Commissioner Anderson said if this is not handled correctly, the City will have to take it over.
Commissioner Anderson said he has never seen a homeowner's association have this level of
responsibility.
Planning Manager Senness stated this will be reviewed with the City Attorney regardless of what
the Planning Commission adds.
Commissioner Petrash said he can't disagree with Commissioner Anderson's comments.
Commissioner Anderson asked why the City can't take responsibility for this lift station.
City Engineer Moberg responded that the City completed a long process of developing the
Comprehensive Plan which was adopted in June, 2009. He stated there are no sanitary lift
stations identified in this future development area in the sanitary sewer section of the
Comprehensive Plan. City Engineer Moberg said this is a unique situation here with the City,
the northwest area, and the way that extension of sanitary sewer wants to proceed from north to
south. City Engineer Moberg said from a water system standpoint development wants to
proceed from south to north. This proposal is one way to help close that gap. In an ideal
situation, the Hampton Hills development would be moving forward and the gravity sewer for
this area would be in place. The use of temporary lift stations would not be occurring if the
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Hampton Hills development were moving forward and the gravity sewer for this area were in
place, but in reality that is not happening. He said City staff is not interested in taking on other
lift stations for maintenance. City Engineer Moberg said cost is a consideration and added that
all lift stations are visited at least once a week for routine maintenance.
Commissioner Petrash said having the City maintain control would satisfy a lot of concerns. He
asked if the cost could be deferred to the homeowners or builder.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked how many lift stations the City currently maintains.
City Engineer Moberg stated there are 15 — 20 lift stations maintained by the City; Wood Crest
currently is the only lift station facility maintained by a homeowner's association.
Commissioner Nelson said he supports the wording of Condition Z and this is a unique situation
with the homeowner's association responsible for the temporary lift station. He said Gonyea
Development is maintaining Wood Crest and will maintain this proposed lift station.
Commissioner Nelson said the City Attorney will review the issues, and he said he hopes
Hampton Hills gets developed and the final sewer is put in. Commissioner Nelson said he has no
problem with this proposal.
Chair Davis said he concurs with Commissioner Anderson that we need positive steps to know
this lift station will be taken care of rather than hoping nothing happens. Chair Davis said he
will support, subject to legal review.
Commissioner Aamoth asked how the City would do a full evaluation to show expertise.
City Engineer Moberg said the developer would need to produce evidence of a contract in place
with a qualified vendor.
Commissioner Kobussen noted that both of these lift stations will not have back up generators,
and asked in the event of a power outage how long before sewers back up into homes.
City Engineer Moberg said lift stations typically pump 6-10 times per hour, and there is a range
of factors that would need to be evaluated before the impact of a power outage could be
determined.
Commissioner Anderson said he interviewed Plymouth staff at the lift station on Xanthus Lane,
and was told 24 hours in that case.
Motion to amend. Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. Commissioners Kobussen and Petrash voting nay.
Motion to amend approved.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion as amended. 7 Ayes. Main MOTION approved.
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Planning Commission Minutes
July 22, 2009
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B. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (2009018)
Chair Davis introduced the request by the City of Plymouth for amendments to the City Code
and Zoning Ordinance regarding subdivision procedures and minimum lot size.
Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the staff report.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if there was a specific situation that led to this proposed change.
Senior Planner Drill said a minor subdivision in an established neighborhood was approved
through the administrative process and not formally reviewed. City Council members became
aware of it and felt a need to review regulations regarding public input for minor subdivisions.
Planning Manager Senness explained that the two newly created lots were substantially smaller
than lots in the area, even though they met minimum lot size requirements. She said this may
occur more often as land becomes more valuable, and tear downs occur in the older part of the
city.
Commissioner Nelson said he would not want to make regulations restrictive for homeowners
who may want to subdivide and maximize their savings or retirement.
Planning Manager Senness clarified that this pertains only to cases where a single oversized lot
with potential for subdivision would be divided into two or three lots.
Senior Planner Drill added that it would ensure the infill subdivision would fit in with the
character of the surroundings.
Commissioner Jaffoni asked if larger properties that are grandfathered in would be subject to the
current zoning regulations. She asked about when you have a situation where these subdivisions
comply with current regulations, but the characteristics of a neighborhood are in conflict with
current zoning.
Planning Manager Senness said this proposed change is using the median because it removes the
extremely large or small surrounding lots that could significantly affect a lot size. In addition,
the proposal would limit the maximum size to 20% over the minimum of the current zoning
district.
Commissioner Kobussen asked how the 20% figure was arrived at.
Planning Manager Senness said staff looked at current examples of the minor subdivisions and
determined that 20% covered all existing situations.
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Commissioner Anderson said with the new regulation, additional property owners would be
included in the notice, and asked if there are any examples where a particular subdivision would
not have met the letter of the new ordinance.
Planning Manager Senness said the Shink subdivision was approved administratively.
Chair Davis opened and closed the public hearing there was no one present to speak on the item.
Commissioner Nelson said he supports eliminating the administrative part and offering more
public input. Commissioner Nelson said he does not like size restrictions. He said if these cases
are few and far between, that they be reviewed on a case by case basis. Commissioner Nelson
said he likes unique neighborhoods with different size lots, and would not be voting in favor of
the proposed changes.
Commissioner Kobussen said if a base line were established, any change to that baseline would
require a variance.
Planning Manager Senness said if a subdivision meets all standards, it is difficult to say no and
that is why we are considering additional regulations. If a request is beyond that base line, then
an applicant could request a variance.
Commissioner Anderson said he agrees with the public participation but does not like to see the
tight condition that could potentially restrict someone's use of their property He said he does not
want to see a decision made on the whim of a neighborhood that didn't like the proposal.
Commissioner Jaffoni said she concurs with the sentiments of public participation. She said it is
important to have a baseline, and will support the proposed change as presented.
Commissioner Aamoth asked if there was a marker when minor subdivisions were
administratively issued. He asked if other alternatives were considered to accomplish this goal.
Planning Manager Senness said the only marker was the minimum lot size in each zoning
district. She said among the alternatives staff considered, this proposed change made the most
sense, and added that it was discussed with the City Attorney.
Commissioner Aamoth said he concurred with Commissioner Nelson regarding the variance, and
said subjectively he didn't necessarily think it is a good idea.
MOTION by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Nelson, to amend the city
code to remove the minor subdivision requirements and keep the lot size as allowed at the
minimum.
Approved
Planning Commission Minutes
July 22, 2009
Page 16
Commissioner Kobussen said his opinion is that the smaller lot size will create chaos and
opposition with the local neighbors going to the City Council. He said he believes that one
subdivision with the small lot is where the hardship developed.
Commissioner Nelson said for those limited situations he preferred to have public input.
Commissioner Anderson said the zoning code defines a lot size, and now in this situation we
can't use it. He said the City should use the rules in force, or there shouldn't be a code that says,
for example, 7,000 square foot lots.
Commissioner Jaffoni said she will support the original proposal, not the motion on the table.
She said this situation occurs in highly developed areas. Commissioner Jaffoni said the original
proposal does prevent unusual situations from occurring that could affect surrounding property
and character. She said this will allow for diversity and different lot sizes, and will give
oversight and public input.
Commissioner Kobussen said he concurred with Commissioner Jaffoni's comments.
Roll Call Vote. 5 Nays. MOTION denied. Commissioners Aamoth and Nelson voting aye.
MOTION by Commissioner Kobussen, seconded by Commissioner Jaffoni, to approve the
request by the City of Plymouth to amend the City Code to remove the minor subdivision
requirements and to approve the request by the City of Plymouth for amendments to the City
Code and Zoning Ordinance regarding minimum lot size.
Commissioner Aamoth said he is in favor of a transparent process, and he thinks the proposal has
two different issues. He supports the public participation piece.
MOTION withdrawn by Commissioner Kobussen.
MOTION by Commissioner Aamoth, seconded by Commissioner Nelson, to approve the
request by the City of Plymouth for amendments to the City Code to remove the minor
subdivision requirements. Roll call vote. 7 Ayes. Motion approved.
MOTION by Commissioner Anderson seconded by Commissioner Kobussen, to approve the
request by the City of Plymouth for amendments to the City Code and Zoning Ordinance
regarding minimum lot size. Roll call vote. 5 ayes. Motion approved. Commissioners Nelson
and Aamoth voting nay.
7. NEW BUSINESS
S. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Davis, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 9:50 p.m.