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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 08-15-2012Approved Minutes City of Plymouth Planning Commission Meeting August 15, 2012 MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Jim Davis, Commissioners Nathan Robinson, Dick Kobussen, Gordon Petrash, and Bryan Oakley MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioners Scott Nelson and Marc Anderson STAFF PRESENT: Senior Planner Shawn Drill, Senior Planner Joshua Doty, and Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom 1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M. 2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 3. PUBLIC FORUM 4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Chair Davis said Item 5.13. will be moved to New Business. MOTION by Commissioner Robinson, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to approve the amended August 15, 2012 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved. 5. CONSENT AGENDA A. APPROVAL OF THE AUGUST 1, 2012 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES Commissioner Kobussen said there were no members absent at the meeting and referenced P. 9 Para. 6 change the word "his" to "this". MOTION by Commissioner Kobussen, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to approve the amended August 1, 2012 Planning Commission Meeting Minutes. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS 7. NEW BUSINESS B. ST. PHILIP THE DEACON LUTHERAN CHURCH (2012060) Chair Davis introduced the request by St. Philip the Deacon Lutheran Church for a variance to allow a freestanding sign to exceed six feet at 17205 County Road 6. Approved Planning Commission Minutes August 15, 2012 Page 2 Senior Planner Doty gave an overview of the staff report. He noted that a letter was submitted and added to the public record. Chair Davis introduced the applicant, Pastor Tim Westermeyer, St Philip the Deacon Church. Chair Davis introduced David H. Cade, 1760 Garland La. N. Mr. Cade said he has been a resident at that address for 47 years. Mr. Cade said the sign would create safety issues in relation to Oakwood School and the traffic at County Road 6 and County Road 101. He said there is literally chaos in the morning with bus traffic and parents distributing children to and from school. Mr. Cade said the International House of Pancakes and the Minnesota School of Business create additional safety issues and it is difficult to maneuver out of the strip mall. He said there are no merge lanes on to County Road 6 east and this is a significant traffic safety issue. He said children from the Kimberly Meadows Townhomes cross six lanes of traffic to access the school and playground at Oakwood School. Mr. Cade questioned if the sign would have 15 -second or 15 -minute changeable copy and would not flash. Senior Planner Doty responded that the sign could change every 15 minutes and would not flash. Mr. Cade said the sign is designed to attract attention and asked the applicant to find another way to indicate information. He noted messages at two neighboring churches are frequently changin messages. Mr. Cade recommended postponing this and looking at the issue on September 5t when school starts. Chair Davis introduced Ron Jesme, 17020 County Road 6. Mr. Jesme said he prefers the sign be less obtrusive than what the ordinances allow, but would accept what the ordinance allows. He said he sees no reason to grant a variance to go so significantly beyond what the ordinance constrains the application to. Mr. Jesme said this request is dramatically in conflict with the intention of this specific ordinance and that alone is adequate to decline the variance. Commissioner Petrash asked Mr. Jesme if he is concerned about the size, and not that it is electronic. Mr. Jesme said he objects to the obtrusiveness in general. He said if the request is within the ordinance he will accept the visual clutter. He said he lives within the ordinances and expects others to live within ordinances if practically possible. Mr. Jesme said in this case he thinks it is practically possible to live within the ordinance. He said he is concerned about general obtrusiveness, the electronics, size, and wouldn't want the brightness of LED's to be exceeded. Mr. Jesme said each element that you are controlling is there to control the visual obtrusiveness in the neighborhood. Commissioner Oakley asked where the proposed sign is from Mr. Jesme's home. Mr. Jesme showed the location of his home and said they attempt to do star gazing from the driveway. He said the sign is out of character with single -story homes in the neighborhood. Approved Planning Commission Minutes August 15, 2012 Page 3 Chair Davis asked the hours of operation for the proposed sign. Senior Planner Doty said the electronic portion of the sign would not be illuminated between 10:30 p.m. and 6 a.m. Commissioner Petrash said he has noticed a lot of signs don't hold for 15 minutes. He asked how the changeable copy regulations are enforced. Chair Davis said he reported a flashing sign at a Holiday gas station. He said the sign no longer flashes. Chair Davis said enforcement is complaint driven and it does work. Commissioner Kobussen asked what the impact would be if the domed roof were replaced with a flat roof so it would be in compliance, but might not be quite as aesthetic. Pastor Westermeyer said they have taken great pains to connect the sign to the church structure architecturally so it would be more attractive and handsome. He said the proposed roof increased the cost. He said there are other ways they could do it, but this is the same roof as the church sanctuary. Pastor Westermeyer said snow becomes an issue if they decrease height off of grade. He said with the particular dimensions of this location, they have snow coming from the parking lot, County Road 6 and the sidewalk. Commissioner Petrash asked if snow is piled higher than two feet. Pastor Westermeyer said snow does get pretty high. He said when this is installed there would be more custodial work around the sign to make sure snow is not against it for visibility and to protect the electronic sign. Mr. Jesme said the sign could be reduced by two feet if the roof is eliminated. He reiterated that had they proposed something within the zoning regulations then he would accept it. He said there are other options that could be considered which could still allow the roof on top. Mr. Cade stated he is not concerned about the issue of light or visual pollution. He said the sign at eye level directly affects safety and distraction is a significant safety hazard. Mr. Cade said he agrees flashing lights are a problem with light pollution. Mr. Cade said the city sends Public Safety to the church to direct traffic and St. Philip's understands that there are traffic issues. Chair Davis said Mr. Cade made good points about safety, but the issues about Oakwood School and children crossing County Road 6 are not germane to this discussion. Chair Davis said this sign will not have a negative impact on traffic safety, and he feels this to be a reasonable request and will recommend approval. Commissioner Petrash said he understands why they want a variance, but is not convinced they found the best solution within our standards and ordinance to satisfy their needs. Commissioner Petrash said he will vote against this request. Approved Planning Commission Minutes August 15, 2012 Page 4 Commissioner Oakley said he doesn't agree there is a safety issue. He said there are signs on roads and streets and that is part of the obligation of drivers to pay attention. Commissioner Oakley said there may be other issues with that intersection, but doesn't believe we are addressing those with this particular action. He discussed the concern of visual pollution and said they missed complying with the letter of the ordinance only by a hip -style roof. Commissioner Oakley said he doesn't agree that a flat roof sign that does meet the ordinance would be a better solution. Commissioner Oakley said he will vote in favor of this and said he appreciated residents bringing their concerns for a good discussion. Commissioner Kobussen said the new sign would be easier to read which would be less confusing to drivers as they would spend less time looking at it instead of slowing down to read it. Commissioner Kobussen said the sign would not be a safety hazard anymore than anything else as this is a busy street and there is a school but that is not germane to the sign issue. Commissioner Kobussen said he does not agree with a proposal to put a flat roof on as that doesn't improve the situation. Commissioner Kobussen said they stay within the limit for square footage which is what our ordinance was trying to get at. Commissioner Kobussen said he will support the request. Commissioner Robinson said he will support the request. He said he understands the concerns presented, but those safety concerns will exist whether the sign is six or eight feet in height. Commissioner Robinson encouraged residents to contact the city if there needs to be some type of safety barrier or cross walk for kids to cross County Road 6. He said the selling point for him was the snow, which would come from County Road 6, the sidewalk and the parking lot. Commissioner Robinson said snow will pack up high and he can understand the need to raise the sign off the ground. He said the nice, metal two -foot roof is not distracting. Commissioner Robinson said there are signs everywhere and it is always the driver's responsibility to pay attention. He said he appreciated the comments and will support the request. Commissioner Petrash asked if a variance will be given for a sign any time snow is a consideration, which is one of the reasons we are giving this variance. He said for consistency sake we may have to change the ordinance. Chair Davis stated that is not why he is approving. He said that was a red herring. He said he likes the aesthetics of the roof looking like the roof of the church. MOTION by Commissioner Kobussen, seconded by Commissioner Robinson, to approve the request by St. Philip the Deacon Lutheran Church for a variance to allow a freestanding sign to exceed six feet at 17205 County Road 6. Roll Call Vote. 4 Ayes. Commission Petrash voting nay. MOTION approved. 8. ADJOURNMENT MOTION by Chair Davis, with no objection, to adjourn the meeting at 7:43 p.m.