HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 05-02-2012Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
May 2, 2012
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Davis, Commissioners Dick Kobussen, Nathan
Robinson, Gordon Petrash, Scott Nelson, Bryan Oakley and Marc Anderson
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Thomson, Senior Planner Marie Darling and
Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to approve the May 2,
2012 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE APRIL 18, 2012 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Petrash, seconded by Commissioner Robinson, to approve the
April 18, 2012 Planning Commission Meeting Minutes. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. DOMINIUM (2012020)
Chair Davis introduced the request by Dominium for a sketch review of a 33 -unit townhome
development at 10305 Bass Lake Road.
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the staff report. Senior Planner Darling stated
several e-mails had been received and are now included in the public record.
Chair Davis introduced the applicant, Jeff Huggett, who said Dominium is headquartered in
Plymouth and has been in operation 40 years. He said Dominium develops, owns, and manages
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apartment communities in 22 states. Mr. Huggett said they typically own real estate for the long
term investment and that is their intention with this property. Mr. Huggett reviewed the plan for
the 33 townhomes which would have two, three and four bedroom units. He said the townhomes
would be 300 feet from the existing buildings to the west, and 140 - 200 feet from the homes on
the south side of the property. Mr. Huggett said these buildings would be similar to the
townhomes in Albertville, which Dominium developed four years ago and are also affordable
rental housing. Mr. Huggett said the two story units would have two car attached garages, the
full complement of appliances, and high quality materials. He said the two handicap units would
be single story.
Commissioner Nelson asked about the location of the play ground and if it would be fenced.
Mr. Huggett said the playgrounds typically are not fenced.
Commissioner Nelson noted the playground would be adjacent to a body of water and fairly
close to the road. He asked if the proposed cul-de-sac would be sufficient for emergency vehicle
turnaround.
Senior Planner Darling said the city would require an 80 -foot bulb on the end of the turnaround
and the developer has provided that.
Commissioner Nelson asked if Dominium maintains their private roadways with their work force
or contract out.
Mr. Huggett said it is contracted out.
Commissioner Kobussen asked who owns the lot to the west by the pond. He said he did not
want a piece of land cut off with no access.
Senior Planner Darling said there are three properties to the west — one is to be developed with
the subject property, one is open space for the homeowner's association for Bass Lake Villas,
and one parcel (not adjacent to the subject property) is owned separately and is developed with a
single family home.
Commissioner Kobussen asked if anyone envisions selling that piece of property so that the
homeowner's association land could be sold for further development.
Senior Planner Darling said the owner resides in the single family home and has no ownership
connection to the homeowner's association with Bass Lake Villas. She said the approving
documents for Bass Lake Villas specify that the property owner has an easement so any
development proposed on that site would be accessed by the private drive.
Commissioner Kobussen asked if they would need an easement to bring the water main from
Trenton Lane.
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Senior Planner Darling said the water main would be installed in the public right-of-way.
Commissioner Oakley noted the water main is looped over to Nathan Lane and asked about the
route to make that happen.
Senior Planner Darling said the developer would be required to bring the water main into the
development and stub it to the property to the east. When that property is developed it can be
extended and connected to the water main that exists in Nathan Lane.
Commissioner Oakley asked if the county has any restrictions regarding the number of accesses
allowed on to Bass Lake Road.
Mr. Huggett said he was not aware of any restrictions.
Commissioner Oakley questioned whether an access would be allowed or would access be
restricted to Nathan Lane.
Senior Planner Darling said if the property to the east develops, access to that site would come
from Nathan Lane.
Commissioner Oakley asked if the 22 -foot private drive would have curb and gutter.
Mr. Huggett said they plan to have a rolling gutter, but it is not designed yet.
Commissioner Oakley said a 22 -foot drive is really an 18 -foot strip of bituminous.
Mr. Huggett agreed.
Commissioner Oakley asked the distance between the garage and back up curb.
Mr. Huggett said the driveways are approximately 22 feet.
Commissioner Oakley asked if the county has identified this area of Bass Lake Road as having
an unusually high number of accidents at this point.
Senior Planner Darling responded that the county has had only informal discussions with the
applicant. She said the county has directed that turn a lane be installed as well as an acceleration
lane.
Commissioner Oakley asked if consideration was given to a standard city street with right-of-
way to one side and developing private drives off that.
Mr. Huggett said that was not considered, and said the density would probably be low.
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Commissioner Oakley discussed the property to the east and asked if Dominium has any
ownership or control over that property.
Mr. Huggett said they do not.
Commissioner Anderson asked where snow storage would occur as there is a creek on the north
and wetlands on the south side.
Mr. Huggett said a logical spot would be between buildings or beyond the turn around.
Commissioner Anderson asked what the rent price range would be.
Mr. Huggett said rents would range from $800 - $1,050.
Commissioner Anderson asked if the residents would be required to keep vehicles in the garage,
as sometimes vehicles line up on the driveway because the garage is full of storage.
Mr. Huggett said he would have to check on that, but there is a handbook of rules for their
communities which addresses that.
Commissioner Robinson asked if there would be additional exterior lighting either at the
entrance of the development, on the playground, or on the cul-de-sac.
Mr. Huggett said a photometric study would be done, and Dominium would plan accordingly
with either lights attached to the homes or street lights.
Commissioner Robinson noted there are only nine additional parking spots for visitors. He said
that seems low as when he has friends over, there could be five additional cars. Commissioner
Robinson asked if street parking would be allowed.
Senior Planner Darling said because this is a private drive, cars may be parked only on the
driveway, in garages or in guest parking spaces.
Commissioner Nelson asked if there would be a property manager and if that manager would
live on site.
Mr. Huggett said the property manager for this development would have an onsite presence in
the clubhouse during business hours.
Commissioner Petrash asked if any of Dominium's developments turned into condos with
private ownership.
Mr. Huggett said they did that once and will stick with rentals.
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Commissioner Oakley asked if the pervious pavement has been used on other projects and has
been approved for use in Plymouth.
Mr. Huggett said they had not used the product before. Senior Planner Darling said the pervious
asphalt is a new product and was used for a portion of the parking lot at Plymouth Covenant
Church.
Commissioner Kobussen asked about the required setbacks between buildings and if fire
sprinklers would be required in these buildings.
Senior Planner Darling said the RMF -2 zoning district requires 25 feet between buildings. She
stated the fire code and building code are superseded by the zoning ordinance as there is a
greater separation in this case. She said Ere sprinklers are required for the four larger structures
as they exceed 9,000 square feet.
Commissioner Petrash asked if there would be a sidewalk for this project.
Senior Planner Darling said sidewalks are not required on private drives. She said the developer
would be required to install a short trail segment between some units leading to the property on
the east so that there would be an eventual connection to existing trails on Nathan Lane.
Chair Davis introduced Courtney Campbell, 5754 Trenton Lane. Ms. Campbell said she is
strongly opposed to this proposal. She said Bass Lake Road has one entry and exit, and anyone
wanting to head west has to speed up, cross over and U-turn on to Nathan Lane. She said going
east is not a big problem but coming home they pass their drive because of the median and have
to U-turn into a 50 mph roadway. Ms. Campbell displayed photos of Dominium's 10850 South
Shore Drive Willow Woods Estates property. She said it is very run down, ill maintained,
landscaping goes on to the street, and there is paint chipping. She said this does not look like a
property that belongs in Plymouth and in this high end neighborhood.
Chair Davis introduced Jill Elles, 5700 Trenton Lane. Ms. Elles said she has lived here for eight
years and was excited to move into the neighborhood with the understanding this property is
zoned for single family homes and not the density being proposed. Ms. Elles said this is a very
narrow, long piece of property and this type of transitional housing of 33 units and 3-4 bedrooms
would bring in a lot of people. Ms. Elles said she is concerned about traffic from this small
space on to a 50 mph. road. Ms. Elles said there would be a lot of families and she questioned
safety by the wetlands.
Chair Davis introduced Tom Gallagher, 1769 Jonquil Lane. Mr. Gallagher said he is
representing Astleford Properties who own the 12- to 14 -acre parcel to the east. Mr. Gallagher
said they did not receive the neighborhood meeting notice and have a lot of questions how this
development would impact their land. He said they are generally not in favor of rental housing
and favor home ownership. Mr. Gallagher said they have questions regarding the trail, utilities,
traffic, and how this would blend with future plans they might have.
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Commissioner Petrash asked if Astleford Properties has plans to develop in the near future.
Mr. Gallagher stated they are working on a plan.
Chair Davis introduced Susan Gross, 5750 Trenton Lane, President of the Bass Lake Villas
homeowner's association. Ms. Gross said three of the 18 units in Bass Lake Villas were rentals
and the homeowner's association board spent most of their time on problems they had with
renters. Ms. Gross said they amended the bylaws so you have to own and occupy; the current
renters are grandfathered in. Ms. Gross said this is an unusual piece of property which is owned
by a number of people, is oddly shaped with different zoning issues, and is landlocked. She said
there is only one way in and out and there is a median on Bass Lake Road so you can't turn into
the development. She said Bass Lake Road has 3 different speeds posted, and traffic is a big
concern. Ms. Gross stated that the homeowner's association feels the Dominium proposal is not
the ideal one for this beautiful wetland area they look out on. Ms. Gross said many purchased
their homes because of the view, and knew there was land that would be sold eventually. Ms.
Gross said they hope the impact could be lower, with single-family homes.
Chair Davis introduced John Hassler, 5704 Trenton Lane, who presented a petition with 47
names of persons that do not want to see this development. Chair Davis added the petition to the
public record. Mr. Hassler said he has concerns over the safety of the 820 -foot private road. He
said snow storage would be a potential hazard as it would be compressed into three piles of
snow. Mr. Hassler said the 18 -foot road is the same as a two -car garage. He said as cars pass,
they could put their hands out to hit each other. Mr. Hassler said he has issues with the safety of
the design, the road width and number of units in this small location. Mr. Hassler said there
would be an additional 197 vehicles using Bass Lake Road. He said school buses, UPS trucks,
and large vehicles are going to traverse an 820 -foot road with not many bends to slow down
traffic. Mr. Hassler said he sees this as a potential drag strip. Mr. Hassler said when he
purchased his house available data told him there were all residential properties in the area, and a
rental townhouse property is not consistent with his investment in his property. Mr. Hassler said
he finds that inappropriate. He said Dominium had asked for $200,000 of funds to supplement
this project and he has concerns that they will come back and ask for that again. Mr. Hassler
stated he is not willing to put his hard earned dollars up for Dominium to invest in this project.
Mr. Hassler concluded that he would prefer to see this as a single-family development which is
what he purchased.
Chair Davis introduced Jerry Unger, 10607 57 PI N., who said as a retired professional engineer
he has big concerns about this development. Mr. Unger said he does not believe a rental
property is appropriate for this neighborhood nor in an area where Plymouth recently approved
properties in the $600,000 figure. Mr. Unger discussed the 35 -foot difference in elevation and
said there is no way visual screening and physical separation can occur. Mr. Unger said Harrison
Place's history with rentals indicates without ownership, properties quickly fall into disrepair and
are a blight. Mr. Unger said runoff from Harrison Place goes through this wetland so the city
needs to make sure it is compatible with previously constructed homes and natural features. Mr.
Unger said in 2006 he had discussions with senior city officials regarding a development
proposal. He stated at that time he was assured there would never be an inlet nor outlet for all
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properties to the east from Trenton Lane or Bass Lake Road. Mr. Unger said if there is an outlet
on Bass Lake Road, there will be a vast increase in U-turns which would make this intersection
an accident waiting to happen, again. He said U-turns are legal but common sense tells you they
are more dangerous. He added there is risk of a secondary collision if a vehicle is waiting to
make that U-turn. Mr. Unger said there is a deceleration lane starting at the existing driveway
running eastward and Dominium has proposed to add an acceleration lane. Mr. Unger said more
lanes would entail tearing up the recently installed trail there. Mr. Unger said he estimates a 35 —
40% increase in impervious surface which will affect the very sensitive wetlands at Hickory
Hills, Harrison Place, The Ponds, and Bass Lake Villas. Mr. Unger said the additional runoff
and stress on these wetlands will cause a backup into Harrison Place. He reviewed the drainage
and runoff to the pond and the elevations ranging from 914 to 918.5 feet. Mr. Unger said in
2006 there were two 50 -year rain storms which caused backup in four back yards at Harrison
Place. He said given the site elevation, there is not two feet of free board that the city has to
maintain between the high water level and the proposed houses. Mr. Unger said another problem
is snow pileup. Mr. Unger reviewed the elevations and high water levels and said we need a real
study. Mr. Unger said in Boulder Ridge, construction was too close to the water and the city
lowered the dam height eight feet and water level in the pond, and then put in ditches which are
slowly destroying that wetland. Mr. Unger said in this development, you will have to ditch the
wetland area to get it into the already impaired Bassett Creek, resulting in no filtering of
nutrients and pollutants. Mr. Unger said he hopes the city will live up to their previous words
and never put an outlet on Bass Lake Road, and in the end do the right thing.
Chair Davis introduced Ron Wieber, 5698 Trenton Lane. Mr. Wieber said we heard from a big
corporation who operates in 22 states that intends to run right over residents' heads and
objections. Mr. Wieber said (Ms. Campbell's) photos show we have a slum lord that is
proposing a development that has no plans for the snow, an 18- x 800 -foot driveway for traffic,
school buses, and cop cars. Mr. Wieber said this is not going to work and is ridiculous. He said
there are no parking rules and an unfenced playground next to a creek and a busy road. Mr.
Wieber said he is glad to hear they have a club house so the cop will have a place to stay when
he is monitoring the residents. Mr. Wieber said when our townhomes were built the city failed
to ensure Eagle Creek townhouses got the proper bonding, and when the developer went
bankrupt the residents were forced to ante up due to poor city planning. Mr. Wieber said there is
no common sense access on to Bass Lake Road which is 50 mph. and very congested. Mr.
Wieber said he purchased his home in good faith that the city would keep residential housing as
is. Mr. Wieber asked how many commissioners looked other directions as Mr. Unger talked
about the promise to never have an access on to Bass Lake Road. Mr. Wieber said body
language told him a lot. Mr. Wieber said rental situations in his association have not been a
favorable situation. Mr. Wieber said he has concerns for the wetlands, environment, and would
like the city to pursue this corporation to clean up their act at their existing development.
A resident submitted two additional petitions to be added to the public record.
Mr. Huggett responded to concerns about maintenance of the Willow Woods Estates. He said
Dominium performed a $2.5 million renovation seven years ago so they are not shirking
responsibility in maintaining this 30 -year old property. He explained one of the photos Ms.
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Campbell showed resulted from replacing the 30 -year old water main line to building. He said
later this month they will replace the sidewalk and portion of that driveway that was covered in
gravel. Mr. Huggett said this building was built on a very difficult soil and every year there is
some form of maintenance on the parking lot. Mr. Huggett stated that Dominium is putting $10
million into their properties and they stick with their properties over the long haul.
Chair Davis asked that the resolution include a requirement for additional parking spots. He said
nine parking spots are not sufficient for that many townhomes, especially with the distance
between them. He recommended that all units have sprinklers. Chair Davis said the road should
be wider as it would be difficult for two cars passing on an 18 -foot wide road.
Commissioner Anderson said the nine units per acre are in the required guideline density of six
to 12 units per acre. Commissioner Anderson said determining rental versus ownership is out of
our jurisdiction, and the city cannot regulate occupancy. Commissioner Anderson said he is
concerned about the 800 -foot private drive which requires an exception to do that.
Commissioner Anderson said he thinks that is not workable in this situation for safety reasons
and the development needs a public street and a secondary access point. Commissioner
Anderson said there is insufficient snow stacking, and any snow stacking at the end of the cul-
de-sac will destroy any trees or fencing which have been placed there for screening.
Commissioner Anderson concurred with Chair Davis on the need for additional guest parking.
Commissioner Oakley said he has issues with private drives as homeowner associations have
been trying to turn private drives back to cities when people find it does cost money to maintain
streets. He said he would be less concerned if the private drive had the ability to meet all city
standards with a right-of-way and then it would be easier to turn back to the city. Commissioner
Oakley said he concurred with Commissioner Anderson that a public right-of-way would be the
way to go. He said he doesn't see how to develop the property with a public right-of-way, but
other properties have done so in the past, and Commissioner Oakley encouraged the property
owners to work together. Commissioner Oakley said some of the photos of Willow Creek
Estates seem to indicate a drainage issue. He said Mr. Huggett indicated they had difficult soils.
Commissioner Oakley said this is a narrow site with difficult soils and it will be very difficult to
handle the wetlands. Commissioner Oakley suggested taking a bigger view of the overall area is
important for a preliminary plat. Commissioner Oakley said he did not feel there would be an
issue with the right in/right out access on Bass Lake Road if there was another access on to
Nathan Lane, and it would be unwise to go forward without a second access. Commissioner
Oakley said his experience with pervious pavement is that it works extremely well in good soils
but in heavy clay soils this needs to be considered very carefully and questions if this would be a
good location for it. Commissioner Oakley said offering storm water credits for pervious
pavement here could make matters worse for some of the storm water issues. Commissioner
Oakley said this could potentially be a good site for affordable housing, but we need to look at
the broader picture.
Commissioner Kobussen said the applicant should define how snow will be stored on the
property as there would be a long driveway and no place to put snow. He said the road width is
too narrow for two-way traffic, especially at the intersection. He said at least the beginning of
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the driveway should be widened so two-way traffic is not so dangerous. Commissioner
Kobussen said the 22 -foot drive is not good for mixed traffic. Commissioner Kobussen said the
resolution needs to look at the wetland designation of the area and ensure water flow remains in
the pond so it doesn't flood in any other area.
Commissioner Nelson concurred with commissioners' comments on his concerns. He said with
the right-in/right-out and no other access, he could not support this not only for traffic reasons
but for delays that could occur for emergency vehicles. He said the playground should be in a
more central, safer location and not near water or a busy road.
Commissioner Petrash said these comments provide a good road map to look at to solve issues.
He said the difficult issue is the entrance on to Bass Lake Road and from his perspective there is
no easy solution to do that. Commissioner Petrash said if that can't be solved, don't try to solve
the other issues.
Planning Manager Thomson clarified items to be added to the resolution, including requiring
sprinklers in all buildings, identifying snow storage locations, moving the playground to a central
location, creating additional guest parking and requiring a public street. Chair Davis said if the
road were wider, there might be more support from the commissioners as some commissioners
want a public street. Chair Davis said he is undecided on public vs. private but the road needs to
be wider. Planning Manager Thomson said the city standard for a private street is 22 feet.
Senior Planner Darling said there is a condition in the resolution that a wetland delineation be
completed before a formal application is submitted and that the required drainage calculations
and other elements of a full storm water runoff review be completed as well.
Commissioner Petrash said it may make sense if the property owners to the east, who are looking
to develop their land, had a ghost layout of that property. He said that might be an influence for
this property as far as access.
Planning Manager Thomson said it could added to the resolution that there would need to be a
connection between this property and the property to the east.
Chair Davis said if that occurred it could take care of a couple issues. He commented that it is
odd to develop this property in isolation with a big parcel beside it. Chair Davis said we should
try to be congruent.
MOTION by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to forward the
comments and recommendations regarding the request by Dominium for a sketch review of a 33 -
unit townhome development at 10305 Bass Lake Road to City Council. Vote. 7 Ayes.
MOTION approved.
8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Davis, with no objection, to adjourn the meeting at 8:31 p.m.